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Zippy-Do-Da
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 36 Winnipeg, MB
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2005-01-04          103422

My tractor is a 'bota L3400. I have been having a problem with my 4 way controller. It seems to be frozen in two locations. I can raise my boom, but can't lower it (Pushing up on the control). I can raise my bucket but can't lower it back down (Pushing right on the control). I can't even move the control into that location, as if there is an ubstruction. It seems to have progressively gotten worse. It would ususally thaw after 40 min of run time, but the other day, I had to run the tractor for 6 hours in order to get them to thaw. After taking a break for a half hour and let the tractor idle, I came back to find they are frozen again.

I spoke with the dealer and he was telling me to drill a 1/8 inch into the back of the control. I don't feel to comfortable doing this as I couldn't quite understand where he was talking about. Has anyone had this issue, and solved it by this method? Can anyone post a picture describing where to make the hole to relieve moisture buildup?


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-01-04          103426

The dealer is on the right track, but I think there's a train coming at him.

What he is talking about is drilling a vent or weep hole to drain off the condensation which is freezing and locking up your FEL control. This was a common trick used with older Dodge distributor caps too.

The problem is, it won't stop the problem from happening.

The fastest way to free up the controls is to use the fluid itself to make heat right in the control valve. Friction makes heat, so speed up the idle to about 1,000 rpm and use a bungee cord to open the bucket curl valve in any direction it will move and leave it there. This will cause the relief valve to open to bleed off the excess pressure and this in turn will heat up the valve and melt the ice.

We have had to do this for years with ours that we use for snow removal commercially.

Best of luck. ....

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Zippy-Do-Da
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 36 Winnipeg, MB
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2005-01-04          103438

I am probably paranoid, but will that procedure cause any damage over time? I beleive there is a blurb in the manual about not doing that, but if it works and is not harming the hydraulic system that will work for me. I take it this doesn't happen to tractors with cabs? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-01-04          103448

A two part question needs a two part answer.

First, yes, prolonged use like this, say to run a device instead of using a remote designed for it, may result in premature wear of the relief valve. In reality, my machines probably accumulate more hours in a month than the average consumer's would in several years, we have yet to have a single problem from doing this.

Secondly, no, cab-equipped tractors are NOT immune to this. On almost every cab-equipped tractor the valve is outside the cab, it is run remotely via a cable system and a joystick that is located IN the cab.

Best of luck. ....

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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2005-01-04          103449

The only freeze up I've had on the loader valve is the float detent. With about 10 minutes of use, the oil warms enough to thaw it out. Any freezing beyond that would tempt me to try an oil pan heater for a couple minutes on the valve body. Haven't tried it, but I would if I needed to.

Continuous running through the pressure relief sounds a little cruel for my poor frozen tractor.
....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2005-01-04          103450

We currently are working with them by filling them with grease and that seems good so far for the past year or two as we have been getting them. ....

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Zippy-Do-Da
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 36 Winnipeg, MB
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2005-01-04          103453

Filling grease where? What kind of Grease, lithium? ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 566 ct
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2005-01-04          103492

zip - I had the same problem as you not long ago. I was advised by the man that I beleive has all the answers & he advised me to spray white lithium grease on the valve that is mounted under your right foot (as your sitting on the seat). It comes in a spray can like wd40. I coated the daylights out of it & have plowed with my kubota twice since then with no freeze up. I was also advised to fill it up with grease but couldnt figure out were to inject the grease. Hope this helps. ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2005-01-05          103562

I had this problem with a Kubota and a JCB 1400 backhoe. Both had cable operated items. On the kubota, the moisture got in the cables that went from joystick to valve, and on the JCB, someone pulled the shutoff cable and left it off, and it froze in off. We used a torpedo heater to thaw it, but for the kubota, we had no easy fix other than repeated thawing. I have seen a syringe type of thing for sale that goes over one end of cable and injects oil down the cable. Sounds good but never tried it. Just one of the reasons I don't like cable operated valves. My kubota R520 and JD 4300 have direct joystick to valve connection and not a problem yet. ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 566 ct
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2005-01-05          103563

Mine does not have a cable & still froze. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-01-05          103573

If it is a contro cable that is freezing up; I can suggest an old truck drivers trick to free up frozen brakes. On the way back home from work a few years ago; I came across a semi truck and flat bed trailer that had the trail skidded off in a ditch. I stopped to help him and the driver told me his trailer brakes were frozen. I was real close to home so I drove home and got a bottle of gas line di-ice for diesel (isoproply alcohol but methyl alcohol will work too) and drove it back to the truck driver. It was a few degrees below zero and unusually cold for this area. He disconnected the air lines to the trailer brakes and poured the alcohol into the air lines and reconnected them to the vehicle line pressure port and cylced the air brakes several times. He did this about 5 times until he had poured the entire bottle into the trailer air brake lines. He kept on cycling the air brakes and finally pushed enough alcohol through the air lines to get it to the trailer brake air servos and deiced them and the water in the air lines as well. He was a real happy truck driver after that and was on his way. You could possibly do something similar with a syringe with alcohol and inject it into the control cables. This would melt and displace any water in the cable and hopfully prevent any more freeze ups. Might be worth a try. Anyhow, that is my story and 2 cents worth. Good luck and hope you get the problem fixed. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-01-06          103624

The alcohol will help in the short term Randy, but it will wash out any lubricant in the cable.

If it is the new style cable with a HDPE liner, no problem, but the cable is the older style with a thin layer of Lithium grease it could lead to long-term problems.

Usually it is not the cable itself that freezes, since the cable doesn't heat and cool, and they are fairly well sealed, they don't collect moisture from condensation. The problem is usually inside the rubber boot that covers the cable to valve connection. That is why it usually only freezes in one direction. The moisture settles to the bottom and freezes after the valve cools down, the valve can be pulled, but not pushed in. This is also why letting the hydraulics run with the valve open in the direction that is free works, it causes the internal relief valve to open, making heat IN the valve.

If the problem is in this boot and it is accessible there are a few easy tricks to help stop it, periodically pull back the boot and dry it out (hair dryer sometimes helps) or even somoetimes at the freezing mark you can just pick the ice off by hand, coating the area with White Lithium Grease helps prevent the ice from sticking too.

Best of luck. ....

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Zippy-Do-Da
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 36 Winnipeg, MB
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2005-01-06          103626

Well since I don't have a cable system, I am going to try a combination of suggestions. Coat with lithium grease, stick an oilpan heater to the base of the Control and cover the Controls. If that works then I will do that, if it doesn't, I will do the Relief valve trick. It doesn't surprise me that something isn't going to work, as the temp's have been hovering in the -40 to -50 degree celcius range. Good old reliable winter Winnipeg weather ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 566 ct
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2005-01-07          103750

Zip - I noticed on mine when the machine is in my heated garage & the tractor thaws out, The valves get a good amount of condensation moisture on them. Before I sprayed the white lithium grease on, I used a hair dryer & got them totally dry first. ....

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Zippy-Do-Da
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 36 Winnipeg, MB
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2005-01-10          103924

I used a magnetic oil pan to thaw it and it took 10min. Works great. Didn't get rid of the moisture, so I will try the hairdryer trick and use some lithium grease next time. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-01-10          103962

A hair dryer will take ambient air and raise it about 50-60 degrees. So if it is -50 the output of the hair dryer would be about zero degrees.

You won't thaw much at that rate.

The grease packing idea sounds like the best long term fix to me. ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 566 ct
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2005-01-11          103981

Mark - we agree but we cant seem to figure out where exactly to pack the grease in the valve. i didnt see anything on the bottom of my valve that resembled what art was speaking of. ....

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JParker
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 152 Richmond, VA
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2005-01-11          104038

I'm glad that I've never seen -50 F or C. I think I'd need that hairdryer in my coat just to think about going outside.

Just an idea (it might not help the hair dryer's life much), if you restrict the airflow through the hair dryer to about half normal flow, the temperature rise would double. Too much restriction, time for a new dryer. One finger in a glove partly covering the intake should do it. It shouldn't take much of a restriction.

Only try this with a disposible dryer.

- JP ....

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lucerne
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 192 Lucerne Maine
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2005-01-11          104041

Used my old DT3000 Kubota today to plow out a job site, the guy I sold it to lives a few blocks away. Started fine but the raise lower on the bucket was froze, he said he has this problem alot. I just let it run and tipped the bucket back and forth once in a while and it came out of it. Nice running the Kubota again. He offered it to me to buy back since he doesn't use it. It has a 351p Farmi winch, a Salsco self feed 4" chipper and a Woods backhoe that goes with it. Anyone interested let me know I think it might go cheap. ....

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grassgod
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 566 ct
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2005-01-11          104043

can u post any pics of it? What year...how many hrs & how many Hp? ....

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lucerne
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 192 Lucerne Maine
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2005-01-12          104058

grassgod, It was a 2002 or 03, 32 hp 8 and 2 trans, I believe and I do have some pictures on my computer, I can send them to you direct, downsizing the pictures and posting them on my picture site takes forever. it had 120hrs on it when I used it the other day. The chipper probably has 10 hours, the winch maybe 10 the hoe 40 hrs and the bucket the rest of the hours, mostly he just plows the lake to skate, and used the bucket for a diesel wheel barrow. The Salsco is an 824 4"x8" self contained self feed you can see it at http://salsco.com/products/824.htm the backhoe is a 7.5 Woods with subframe and runs of the rear tractor hyraulics, the winch is a 351p Farmi the one at the very bottom of this page with the dozer blade on the bottom http://www.valby.biz/newpage6.htm it has plenty of power and will pull most anything on this tractor. Let me know and I'll email some pics. He also has my trailer he wants to sell, tandem axle, 2 5/8 ball, brakes, 16 or 18 foot and I think 7000 lb maybe 10000. It is an 02 or 03 . ....

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bmlekki
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 185 Upstate, NY
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2005-01-12          104067

Lucerne,

How much did the chipper go for? Thats something else!
4" x 8" 3-Point Chipper
3-Point Hitch
Model 824
http://salsco.com/products/824.htm ....

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lucerne
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 192 Lucerne Maine
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2005-01-12          104073

I think it was about 5 grand give or take a few hundred. Just stick the butt of the branch in and walk away for the next, it would haul em in and spit em out as fast as you could drag em. What was real nice is the speed can be controlled and with the 8" opening and the size and taper of the chute, you didn't have to trim much, it would either fold or break the other branches as it pulled the limb in. ....

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DingoBX
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6 Kyogle, NSW, Australia (East coast near Queensland border)
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2005-01-20          104533

Yep, had similar problem... found that the height control lever for the mowing deck had not sprung back to its neutral position and was still partially in the raise quadrant and was overiding the loader controls just as you describe. So when it happens again simply move the deck lever to its neutral position and alls OK. One day I'll get around to adjusting the spring on the deck lever. ....

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