Go BottomTop and Tilt Hydraulic How to
 | zr1john
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 16 Dousman WI 
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2004-12-06 101727
Hey Beagle,
On your B7800 where did you pick up the hydraulic for the TNT. Is there a power beyond port on the loader valve? Is there a place you can get pressure on the back of the tractor anywhere? I have ordered a TNT kit from Integration Engineering and need a place to get pressure from. The dealer wanted over $600.00 for rear hydraulic outlet with valve. I just picked up my new 7800 last Monday. I have the 4 way with the regeneration circuit on my FEL. Have got my front and rear light instaled along with a horn. I also installed a diverter valve off the bucket cylinders to operate the cylinder on my rear blade. I need to figure out how to get some pictures up and will make them availiable. This is my second Kubota compact tractor. I still have the Kubota B1750 I bought new in 1990.
Thanks for any info.
John
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 | beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan 
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2004-12-06 101730
The FEL has a Popwer beyond port. That is how the FEL is installed on the tractor. The front hydraulic block has a PB port and return port. The valve exhaust goes directly back to the tractor reservoir.
My Aux valve is plumbed off the PB port of the FEL. The PB port on the FEL valve routes to the IN port on the Aux valve. The PB port on the AUX valve routes to the return port on the hydraulic block. The OUT port on the AUX valve is "teed" to the return line from the FEL valve. You must have Power Beyond capability on the auxiliary valve to be able to keep the tractor hydraulic circuit complete.
The 7800 does not have a rear hydraulic block like the 2710 and 2910 do. You can add the auxiliary circuit as I descibed off the FEL valve, or off the front hydraulic block if you don't have the FEL. In either case, it needs to be a complete Power Beyond circuit to not interrupt the tractor hydraulics.
I chose to mount the Aux valve on the loader tower because it made the tie-ins to the FEL valve simple. All the hoses are behind the tower. See my pics 2 and 4. Make sure your valve is open center and has Power Beyond capabilites. You should also size the valve slightly larger than the hydraulic capacity of the tractor. There is some flow loss through the valve, and since all the valves are is series, you want to allow for a little extra flow to make up for the losses. My Aux Valve is rated at 12gpm. I haven't noticed any difference in the tractor hydraulics since I installed it. The hook up was pretty straight forward. ....
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| zr1john
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 16 Dousman WI
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2004-12-06 101733
Thanks Beagle, I bought the whole kit for the TNT from Integration Engineering. It should arrive before the end of this week. I will post my thoughts on the kit after I get it installed in case anyone may be interested. Thanks again,
John
P.S. Saw the pic of your dogs. My little beagle will by 14 years old next month. Best Dog I ever had! ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-12-06 101734
john, curious about what you paid for the IE kit. I spent about $250 for the Aux valve, hoses, fittings, and plugs, and about another $150 for the cylinders, plus some fabrication time to make the end clevis's for the cylinders and the mounts for the valve and plugs. About right? ....
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| zr1john
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 16 Dousman WI
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2004-12-06 101735
The complete kit from integrated engineering is $1200.00 and includes everything. There were some forums that I read on the other tractor site which I cannot post it's name here, where some people had this system and really liked it. The kit includes hoses, joystick valve and console,ROPS mounting arm system, cylinders with check valves and position indicators. This may be more than some of the other store bought systems but it seems to be the Cadillac of the ones I researched. check out their website "topandtilt"
John ....
Link: Top and Tilt
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-12-07 101757
I had looked at their system when I was putting together mine. I never did price it, nice set up, alittle pricey. ....
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| zr1john
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 16 Dousman WI
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2004-12-09 102002
Hello Beagle,
Can you tell me exactly where the power beyond port is located on the loader valve. I can only find one small port located on the right side of the loader valve when you are sitting on the tractor. It is a small plug that looks to be about the size of a quarter inch pipe plug.
An interesting note, I emailed the Kubota tech center and asked them if the valve on my loader had a power beyond port. They responded back to me that my loader valve does not have a power beyond port.
Anyone else out there have rear hydraulics connected to a power beyond port on their loader valve? I have a B7800 with the LA402 loader with the 4 position valve with the regent circuit.
Thanks,
John ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-12-10 102032
Your FEL has power beyond, that is how it runs off the tractor hydraulics. The power beyond port on the FEL is presently routed to the return port on the tactor hydraulic block. If you look in the owners manual for the loader, in the set up section, the PB port on the valve and the return port on the hydraulic block are both identified. They are color coded, I don't remember the color at this time.
Understanding the circuit makes identifying the ports easier. You are NOT looking for a port that is not presently used. The PB port is used to complete the cicuit. The FEL valve is actually in series with the tractor hydraulics. The additional Aux. Valve will be the second valve in a series of PB circuits running off the tractor circuit. Power beyond allows fluid pressure beyond the first valve. Don't confuse Power Beyond with exhaust. To have a series circuit, you need three ports on the valve: "in", "power beyond", and "out". The "out" is exhaust oil and is always routed directly to the reservoir. The "in" is pressure fluid in, coming from the pump or the power beyond port of another valve. The "power beyond" port supplies pressure flow beyond the valve, to the next section of the circuit. The last valve in a series
would not require power beyond since there isn't anything down the circuit that requires pressure flow.
If you look at your FEL valve, you will see three lines attached to the valve, besides the 4 work ports. Match these three lines up with the diagram in the manual. My valve was also marked in the casting with port identifiers; "in", "out", and "PB", along with the color coding.
Hope all this helps. It's pretty straight forward once you see how the circuits are run. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-12-10 102033
All of that, and what I didn't say is, to hook up the Aux Valve, you will disconnect the hose that presently runs from the "PB" port on the FEL valve to the return port on the hydraulic block and hook it to the "in" port on your Aux. Valve. The "PB" port on the Aux Valve will then be hooked to the return port on the hydraulic block. The "out" on the Aux valve will be "teed" to the "out" of the FEL valve that runs to the tractor reservoir. ....
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| zr1john
Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 16 Dousman WI
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2004-12-10 102041
Beagle,
Make much more sense now. I did as you said and looked at the loader book and I also looked at the dealer set up and assembly pamplet. I was looking for an unused port. You have been a great help, Thank you! I'll let you know how it works out
John ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-12-10 102059
Glad it helped. Once you follow the circuit through it's pretty straight forward. If you have any other questions, I'll try to help. Mine went toghether fine. ....
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 | ncrunch32
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 762 Kingston, NY 
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2004-12-10 102069
Beagle, thanks for an understandable definition of the hydraulic circuit on a tractor! I enjoyed your responses. ....
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| Temp97
Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2 Western New york
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2008-02-28 151751
Beagle,
I'm trying to accomplish the same thing with my 7800. I wasn't able to open the picture you have attached. I was hoping that it was a pic of the hook ups to the Hydra ports. Have you completed the project yet??
Thanks ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2008-02-28 151758
The picture is a schematic of the FEL and Rear Remote circuit. The rear remote valves are plumbed in series with the FEL valve. It is extemely imporatant to make sure you complete the Power Beyond circuit properly. The hydraulic system in the tractor is Open Center, which means you always ahve to have by-pass flow through the Power Beyond. It is also necessary to power the 3-point hydraulics.
The hook up is very simple. The Power Beyond port on the FEL valve has the return to the tractor hydraulic block on the right side of the transmission. You are adding the rear remote valves in series, off of this line. The Power Beyond line that now goes to the tractor block will be re-routed to the "in" side of the rear remote valve. The Power Beyond from the rear remote valve now goes to the return port on the trator hydraulic block. The "out" port of the rear remote valve "tees" into the "out" line of the FEL valve, or can be plumbed directly to the reservoir return on the tractor.
If I remeber right, the return port of the tractor hydraulic block is the port towards the rear of the tractor on the hydraulic block.
It may sound messy in words, but once you follow it a couple times, I think it will be straight forward.
Let me know if you have any other questions. We put top-n-tilt systems on a lot of tractors. Once you have it, tough to go without.
Good Luck. ....
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| night66owl
Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7 NW. Ohio
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2008-03-18 152251
I have a B6200D with a FEL. I want to add rear hydraulics. My FEL valve just has 2 hoses, 1 in from the block and 1 out back to the block. I don't see any PB ports on the FEL valve so I was wondering if I can get a new valve with PB and install it first and run the FEL off the new valve PB?
One thing I don't understand is the discussions talk about the aux. port returning to the reservoir along with the PB going back to the block. Why doesn't my FEL valve have this? Can the new valve be run in series with just 1 in and 1 out going to the FEL?
Thanks for any help. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada 
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2008-03-18 152252
I think you're getting two separate valves confused.
The valve you have for your FEL is a 4 way, 2 axis valve, left & right operate one set of cylinders (bucket) in & out, and up & down operate another set of cylinders (lift arms) up & down.
The axillary valve they are talking about is a whole second valve to run the upper 3pth link cylinder in & out, and the tilt cylinder up & down.
If all you want to do is operate a single function, such as a hydraulic upper 3th link, all you need to do is add a T-fitting to the both the supply and return lines from your FEL valve and route them to a new 2 way valve.
You could do it all with one controller using a special valve, but IMHO the cost isn't worth the end result. They are very spendy.
Best of luck. ....
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| night66owl
Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7 NW. Ohio
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2008-03-18 152253
I guess I meant running my FEL valve off the new valve PB port, not replacing the FEL valve. I wanted to have a hyd. top link. I also wanted to add power angle to my rear blade so I would add a new 2 spool valve and have quick connects. I had thought about t- fittings off the supply and return lines, but that would be running in parallel and didn't think that would work? Don't the valves needed to be run in series? ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-03-18 152254
The down & dirty solution to what you want to do is to just run the top link & blade angle by connecting them to your existing FEL valve by swapping quick connects, but that is a bit of a PITA.
I don't know if your machine is open center or closed.
Best of luck.
....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2008-03-22 152312
Seems to be some confusion over how PB valves work. Work ports are the ports on the valve that control whatever "tool" you are attaching. Lets leave those aside. For an open center, power beyond valve, there are 3 system flow ports; flow in, power beyond, out or exhaust. The power beyod port is what allows pressure flow in series circuits downstream from the valve. In other words, it allows you to add a valve in series, but still supply full pressure flow to the next downstream circuit.
To add a valve in series in an existing circuit, you route the power beyond from the existing valve or circuit to the "in" port of the valve being added. You route the "power beyod" port of the new valve back to the in "in" port of the existing valve, or in on a hydraulic block. All that is left is to route the "out" of your new valve back to the reservoir. How you do that is not that important to the system. Just make sure it flows back to reservoir.
Only the added valve needs to have a power beyond port to add circuits in series. Almost all compact tractors have open center systems. Check your owners manuals. I believe the Jinmas, and jinmas under all the other names, are closed center systems. Valves can be added in parallel in closed center systems. There isn't a need for power beyonds. ....
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| night66owl
Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7 NW. Ohio
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2008-03-22 152315
I am understanding how PB works and how I am going to hook up rear ports. The valve for my FEL just has a "in" port and "out" port. Comes from the hyd. block to the "in" and "out" goes back to the block and on to the 3pt. The part I don't understand is why it doesn't have a 3rd "out or exhaust" that is the low pressure return since the 3pt looks to be in series after the FEL valve? ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2008-03-24 152364
Got it now. Is the hydraulic block for the FEL valve near the center of the tractor, on the transmission. Let us know, it will help determine the right way to add circuits in series. The older tractors were set up a little differently than the newer PB valves.
Thanks ....
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| night66owl
Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7 NW. Ohio
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2008-03-24 152365
Yes, the hyd. block is just in front of my right foot in the middle of the tractor, mounted on the transmission. ....
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| tribbeyite
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2 Norman, Oklahoma
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2008-03-29 152529
Hey Beagle,
I also have a 7800 and would like to install a remote hydraulic line. I am wanting to power a small grabble. I find your installation to be very neat. Your control valve
setup is very sharp looking. What an excellent choice for placement of that valve too. Is that something that you fabricated or is that something that one can purchase off the self? Any information would be greatly appreciated. I am greating some great information from your postings on this subject. I don't know if this a do it yourself project for me or not, but I am getting a better understanding of the hydraulic system. ....
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