Go Bottomtractor capable of running trencher
 | Toby
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2004-06-15 88572
I am looking for a Kubota capable of running their trencher attachment! Differnet dealers give me different answers! It also needs to be have a belly mower for mowing a couple of acres! Any suggestions on price and what model would best fit?
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
 | beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan 
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2004-06-15 88582
In the B Series, the 2710 and the 2910 are compatable with trenchers. The rear hydraulic block on these tractors makes the trencher compatable.
Rear hydraulics can be added to the other B-Series models through the Power Beyond of the FEL control valve. ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada 
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2004-06-15 88583
Toby, you need two things to run a trencher, a PTO output strong enough to drive the size trencher you are looking at, and a hydro-static drive transmission. Even units with a creeper gear will not go slow enough with the engine at PTO speed, only a HST will go that slowly.
Past that just pick your favourite flavour of tractor.
Best of luck. ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-06-15 88606
Hey Murf, don't Kubota trenchers require rear hydraulics. I thought I remember that you need a hydraulic top link for the trenchers. Thats why Kubota only lists them for tractors with rear hydraulic blocks. Like I said in my last reply, that doesn't necessarily mean you can't add rear hydraulics to other models. Help my memory along a little here. ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-06-16 88666
Most 3pth trenchers I have seen use a separate PTO hydraulic pump and are hydrostatically driven.
This is because they are basically all one design and change only the mounting hardware to design to allow them to be used on Skid Steer Loaders, dedicated trenchers or tractors.
There are some PTO-driven units but they seem to be a real minority. I suspect the requirement for rear aux. hydraulics is because of some other feature on their unit like depth adjustment or a swiveling discharge shoot that must be done from the operators seat.
Best of luck. ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
| Toby
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2004-06-16 88679
Murf, can the hydralic block be added to the B7800? Or is it not cost effective and better off to just upgrade to the 2910 or 2710? ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-06-16 88681
I'm not sure, I don't have or deal with the B-series, Art or another dealer would be the one to answer that question.
Best of luck. ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-06-16 88682
Adding a rear block to the 7800 is "possible", but not at any reasonable price or effort. I own the 7800 and have looked into the differences, and you probably don't want to go there. The only hydraulic block on the 7800 is in the front, but can be plumbed to the rear for rear hydraulics, either through the loader valve PBY, or dircetly. Check out Tractorsmart, they have kits, or do it the way I did by buying the parts directly. I added rear hydraulics to my 7800 for about $250. Just be careful when looking at control valves to stay in the 8 to 12 GPM range, or you will end up with a pretty sizable chunk of iron for a valve.
If you are interested in any more info., let me know. I'd be happy to let you know exactly what I did. I believe the trencher Kubota offers is PTO driven, and uses a hydraulic top link for angle control on the trencher. ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
| MadRefereee
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 23 New Hampshire
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2004-06-16 88692
The B7800 doesn't have a rear hydraulic block. To get rear hydraulics you have to disconnect the loader valve's PB hose from the front block and extended it to your aux spool valve(s). The PB from the aux spool then goes back to the front loader block. The return hose still connects to the tank as it normally would. 2 longer hoses and a union fitting are all that is required. This is the way the Kubota and TCC units are plumbed. ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-06-16 88697
Yep, pretty much what I said in my last post. ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
 | JParker
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 152 Richmond, VA
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2004-06-17 88778
I haven't learned all the hydraulic terminology yet, but would love to have rear hydraulics for a top link on my B7800. Would what was previously described require removal of my FEL with 4-in-1 bucket? A sketch would be great. If it can't be linked as a photo, please feel free to e-mail. ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-06-18 88795
Nope, your FEL valve will allow the addition of rear hydraulics. The set up is simple:
From the tractor supply hose to the FEL valve input (existing)
From the FEL power beyond to the remote valve input
From the remote valve power beyond back to the tractor Power beyond. ( just remove the power beyond at the loader valve and attach to the power beyond port of the remote valve.)
Output from both the FEL valve and remote valve back to the tractor return port on the transmission. You will need to tee these two lines together.
A few points:
Make sure the remote valve has a power beyond port
Get a remote valve rated between 7 and 12 gpm
All the ports on the tractor and the FEL valve are identified in the loader and tractor operators manual.
A diagram of a Power beyond circuit is available from Prince Hydraulics on their website.
Hydraulic fittings can be frustrating. There are three basic types of fittings: 0-ring, JIC 37, and NPTS. Sizes for 0-ring fittings are given in SAE sizes and thread sizes. SAE sizes are the number of 1/16" for the thread size. For example SAE 8 and 1/2" 0-ring are the same size. Make sure you know the port fitting sizes on the valve you purchase. The FEL hoses have 3/8 JIC swivel fittings on them. All of the fittings, valves, and hoses you would need are available at Surplussupply.
I mounted my remote valve to the loader tower. Makes for easy control from the operators seat and simplified the plumbing between the loader valve and the remote valve.
I completed my whole set up including 4-rear plugs, valves, fittings, and hoses for about $250.
....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin 
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2004-06-18 88817
"your FEL valve will allow the addition of rear hydraulics. The set up is simple:"
I think alot of the confusion over hydraulics is the tendency (myself included) to try to make a simplified analogy to electricity or water pressure systems where you can just tap into the pressurized line at any point and use it.
Here are my thoughts on tractor hydraulics which may or may not be accurate:
Power beyond is just a hydraulic loop where fluid is allowed to flow at the pump output. Fluid flows through the pump, down the line and is dumped back into the transmission. If I'm thinking correctly there is little or no pressure in the power beyond loop when no valves are in operation. The valves simply divert a portion of the flow to the cylinders to be operated which then creates pressure in the cylinder piston. Once this fluid is cycled through the cylinder, the valve then dumps it into a waste line that also flows back to the transmission.
Any comments from you hydraulics guys? I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.
Dave ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-06-18 88825
What you have described is pretty much it. The power beyond porting of the valve body allows pump supply to a series circuit beyond the spools. The total pump demand is the combined load of all the spools at any given time within a series circuit. There are many variations to spool porting, series and parallel for example, that start to make the circuit more complicated, but doesn't change the basics of what you described.
For the most part, flow is flow, whether it is fluid or electricity, the same basic principles apply for demand, flow, losses, branching distribution, etc. The terminology changes, but the principles are similar. Fluids at high velocities, or in turbulent flow, behave differently.
The Power Beyond ports on the loader valve and the remote valve allow for both valves to be in a series circuit within the hydraulic circuit of the tractor. The PB of the last valve in the series supplies pump fluid to the 3-point hydraulics of the tractor.
Hope this helps. ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2004-06-18 88830
beagle, The backhoe I bought was set up for a PTO pump and external reservoir. It has one inflow connector and one outflow connector because it was the only thing run and there was no "power beyond" needed.
I'm thinking I can route a hose back from the tractor power beyond through the BH valving and forward through the loader valve block. When the BH is not hooked up I would connect the rear hose fittings together so that the loader would again be the first one on the circuit (but have a slightly longer path).
I think you described taking power beyond after the loader valve and then routing back to rear remotes. Mine would be somewhat different in that I don't think I would need any additional valves. Is my plan feasible or is there some reason I would want the loader to be the first in line?
Dave
My apologies to Toby for taking this thread in a slightly different direction. ....
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Add Phototractor capable of running trencher
| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-06-18 88834
I'm a little tired and the end of the week, but to run through a power beyond circuit, you always need to exhaust the valve to a reservoir. Each valve in the circiut needs input, power beyond, and exhaust for the circiut to work. The exhaust port from any valve in the circuit always goes directly to the reservoir. I'm not sure I understood exactly what you were going to do, but it seems like you are running pump pressure through the valve without an exhaust tie to the reservoir. You never run valve exhaust through the circuit, or in other words, you cannot run output from one valve to the input of another. Did I understand you correctly. When I get home, I will look at this again. ....
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