Go BottomWhat s the best set-up
 | Teach
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2 Storrs, Ct. USA 
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2002-10-24 44152
I am looking at a 7500 to move snow and do some personal logging/firewood. The biggest issue is the drive way. It's very steep and about 500 feet long. What would be the best set up for this scene... chains, 4wd, weights, fel, or blade, or blower. Drive is old pavement in fair condition. It tends to get slick with snow fall less than 6" at a time. ice etc. any suggestions?
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2002-10-25 44173
A blower takes far less traction than blades, but the steep drive is still an issue.
I clear on both asphalt and frozen gravel using a blower and loader. The slopes are gentle and 4wd/turfs works OK. I'm pretty sure that I'd need chains if I cleared with a blade.
I don't clear down to pavement nor does anybody else around here. I'm not sure if it's even reasonable to try with tractor or light truck equipment. My object is to keep a layer of snow-pack on the drives and that isn't too slick. Generally snow stay on the ground all winter, but a few times a winter freezing rain does create problems.
Snow removal takes some strategy, and the very worst strategy is to plow when freezing rain followed by a freeze is forecast. That produces a skating rink that lasts until more snow-pack is built up. A layer of frozen slush is rougher than a plowed surface and is far less slick. For plowing, the main strategy is figuring where to put it so there's still enough space to plow in the spring. Blowers don't have that problem.
My snow-pack does turn into pure ice sometime towards spring or after a long thaw. I break it up with my box scraper scarifiers and remove it with the loader. Seems to work OK. Strategies for people in areas where the snow doesn't stay on the ground all winter probably have different strategies.
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| Teach
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2 Storrs, Ct. USA
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2002-10-25 44179
Thanks Tom,
If I went with a blower should I put it on the front or back? This driveway is very steep.....I've been blowing snow for years with an old Snapper blower. It's sort of like wrestling with a bear...you're never quite sure if you should hang on or run. In a few years I'll probably take this tractor rig to Vermont where I have a cabin and 10 acres of woods and an even longer driveway, but as you have noted there is almost always snow on the ground, and the driveway is flatter and gravel. For now though I'm stuck with this steep driveway. I'm thinking weights and chains too. Any ideas here would be appreciated. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-10-25 44184
Wheel weights and chains are always a good idea, and never a waste of money.
Do you get deep heavy snows?
Is there room to plow downhill and push the snow well away from the driveway?
If not, if you are working around a lot of trees, then it sounds like you will need a blower. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-10-26 44217
A blower might solve a traction problem but chains and weight sounds like a good idea.
One of the tradeoffs between a blower and blade is time. Ground speeds using a blower are quite a bit slower than when using a blade. However, a blower can clear snows in one pass that would require several with a blade. In addition, managing the plow birms takes time and may take a lot of time on some properties.
I use a 3ph blower myself. A front blower really isn't an option on my Ford 1710, which lacks a mid-pto (conversions are available but have disadvantages). I also use my loader as well as blower for clearing. The driving backward thing doesn't give me problems. However, if I had long roadways to do a blower would take a lot longer than a blade for moderate snows. For light snows, I'm not willing to drive backward as fast as the blower is willing to clear. My 1710 does have 4 reverse gears that give me a decent choice of ground speed at PTO RPM. For heavy snows, I need a ground speed of less than 1 mph and even then the fan may not keep snow cleared off the auger. I don't know what sort of gears 7500's have.
Oh yes, blowers are pretty well useless on gravel until it freezes. This time of year I sit around hoping we don't get a heavy snow till the gravel freezes because I'd have to clear it with the loader.
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-10-26 44223
Tom, I've got a 1710 with a front blower if you decide you need one. On pavement I tell people to not run chains as I've seen to many times a good set of turfs will give more traction. I would be recommending getting the industrial or ag tires depending on the woods work that you talk about. Front blowers are easier to operate than rear mounts but they make it so you could leave the loader on so maybe you could scrape down to the pavement for a clener effect to the driveway. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-10-26 44225
Thanks Art:
My dealer put together my blower as part of the package when I bought the tractor. The $1000CDN for a rear to front PTO conversion on top of the blower price sort of made my decision for me. The conversion also lowers ground-clearance and I never considered it long enough to figure how difficult going from rear to front PTO use might be.
I'm happy to know that one is around and I'd likely be very interested if I had a 1/2 mile or so roadway to clear. With my short drives, I'm happy enough with my 3ph blower. On the other hand, it's snowing right now and my neck is stiff and sore. I'd probably end up with a sore back from twisting my body around since my neck won't turn very far. I've spent most of the past week at a computer nursing along a crash and then setting up a new box. But that's a straw man I guess. The gravel isn't frozen so I couldn't use the blower no matter what.
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-10-28 44305
Mark, just a note on plowing down hills, Where we are in NY much the same as VT they don't plow down hill if there is a choice when we get a big snow. They, we prefer to plow up hill as we can always back away and hit it again. If you are going down hill you often wind up where you stop as there might be enough snow that came over the top of the blade to stop you from backing up the hill. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-10-28 44309
Good point. Now that I live in the mountains I will remember that. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-10-28 44322
Tom, the unit that I have fastens in to the mid pto as there is nothing going to the rear of the tractor as you suggest. I am pricing several of the bigger units out that do go on the front and extend to the rear and I do tell people they do have to watch where they drive as you are right about the ground clearance. the units I'm invovled with right now all have over 20" ground clearence but they do extend behind the tractor some and that worries me more that just hanging down for snow removal as I'm more worried over them backing into something. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-10-29 44345
Art: Mid-pto for 1710's has always been sort of mysterious for me. I guess you solved the mystery for me by having one. My owner's manual doesn't describe one but indicates a blank fuse slot for the option. I haven't looked too hard, but I haven't found it in the repair or parts manuals.
I seem to recall that the rear to front conversions had some potential problem with the direction of rotation but the issue may have to do with people who want to mount 3ph implements on the front. RPM was another issue since front implements usually are designed for mid-pto's that have higher rpm's than the standard 540 rear. Suppose you've been through these issues though. There were just too many issues and too much cost for me to think about a front blower. Suppose I should be happy I don't have real long drives or I might be permanently looking over my shoulder like an investment advisor.
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2002-10-29 44359
Just an extra thought on the idea of the chains. I've found that on pavement that chains do not help but hinder traction of tires on hard pavement. When using them they actually pick up the tractor and remove the rubber from the surface which actually cuts the traction from a rubber tire. Now if you are going over the snow when it is a foot deep or so and not plowed that is a different story. We've had very good luck with turf tires on pavement for traction. My first experience with this was over 30 years ago and I just couldn't believe it when it happened but it is true. If in doubt just get the price and secure it with your dealer for a later purchase on the chains if you need them. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-10-29 44363
Art, you are right of course.
Chains are only useful in deep snow, much the same as R-1's are only useful on soft ground.
In Alaska chains were also helpful (but only a little) if you had six inches of ice on the ground and rain running over the top of that, but I don't suppose most people see that kind of weather. When we encountered those conditions, the cops and firemen were the only ones moving around anyway. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-10-30 44414
Mark: We do get that kind of weather in the upper Ottawa Valley occasionally. You can't really even walk on the drive let alone drive without chains (I seem to recall something called studded chains that are even better on ice).
The ice is frozen to the gravel like JB-weld and it's staying there till spring unless enough salt is used to turn a yard into the Dead Sea. Best hope is that some wet snow turns to slush and then freezes to a rough surface of a few decent snows restore a snow pack.
I've had enough traction with my turfs to drag a box scraper around and sort of chew up glaze ice with scarifiers, but not when it's still raining. I'm not sure how much chains would help. Undoubtedly they'd be better than nothing. I'm just happy that these conditions aren't common around here so I've coped OK without chains. I did joke one particularly awful year that things were so bad I might as well take an ice auger out on the drive so I could practice my ice fishing.
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-10-30 44432
More than once in my life I have gotten up in the morning and found my cars had slid (slud?)out into the street. Some nights out on patrol it was a real challenge because the cars would slide sideways off the crown of the highway and into the ditch if you stopped. ....
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