Go BottomAge old Question - Which One BX 24 BX2660 gc2310
 | lbeabes
Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 7 Gaithersburg, MD 
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2008-09-08 156536
Hi all,
New to the link and of course I to have been doing some research to get the right size tractor for my needs. Unfortunately, all the models and numbers are beginning to run together and I am getting more confused the more I look around. At some point I hope it all begins to make sense.
I recently purchased a "retirement" home in my old hometown of Johnstown PA. It is 5 acres, 4 of which is lawn with quite a few trees. It is fairly rough though and I want to make sure I get a box blade to smooth out some of the bumps. In the near future is a large garden and corn patch. Also, the lawn is dotted with low-cut stumps that I will have to mow aroundjust like the trees. I do plan on digging them out over time and plan on building a garage and most likely a barn so there will be footers to dig.
I have looked at several tractors and models and think that a Kuboto BX is right especially considering the number of obstacle to mow around. However I am bulking at the BX24 in faver of a BX2660. First, I test dug the Hoe on the BX 24 and was not impressed. I have owned an old Terramite T5C and I fondly called it a BEAST as I was always impressed with its capability in both the Hoe and the Loader. When I dug with the BX Hoe, I was hard pressed to get the 12 inch bucket full. The big question is, "how hard was the ground I was trying to dig and how would the T5C do in that same spot? Of course the dealer asured me that the ground was shale-like-concrete and can put me in contact with many owners who swear by the BX 24. As well, I I looked at the difference in price for the BX2660 - more horseys, no Hoe but added an FEl about 5K less! That 5K can buy a lot of rental hoe time or another old T5C!
I was reading some of your posts recently and stumbled on the question about the Massey Ferguson 2310. Another option - just what I need. Seems like the MF2310 has better specs and little more power, but seems like a larger machine more comparable to the Kubota B series. If I want to compare the 2310 to the Kubota, I should compare it to a B23xx not the BX. Does that sound right? Being larger it may be an issue for a lot of steering aroung the trees when I mow - so it might be too big. I do like the "go fo more power" idea as many suggest that is the big attraction to the 2660 - more power, 26HP in the same small BX size.
Any advice you guys can offer is appreciated. I do understand that the dealer relationship is important, but if the tractor is wrong it doesn't matter how good the dealer is. Kubota is about 3 miles away and great attitude, MF is 30 miles but I have not visited them. Cannot find JD nearby but can't say as I looked real hard for them.
Larry
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 | auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2168 West of Toronto 
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2008-09-08 156537
I don't know specific Kubotas but given their reputation, the wide range of models and attachments, and the nearby dealer, I don't know why you'd look elsewhere. Nothing beats a field test, so maybe the dealer would let you try more than one model. ....
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-09-08 156538
Larry, can not help you with the models you are looking at but based upon my two Kubotas and my brother's Massey, give me the Kubota. I do have a B2710 and it has a big heart.
Digging the stumps out is a good option to me based upon many factors but here they would likely grind them. I don't like that if digging is a good option. I say that based upon my own experience of grinding them and now for years it is to keep filling in the rotting stump holes. If I were only going to need the hoe to dig out the stumps and then be done with it, I would rent one for that or even a mini excavator. That way your fel would be free to move dirt and stump.
Sure hope you enjoy both your new homesite and the joy of working it. Glad to have you here. kt ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-09-08 156543
I faced your same delema about a backhoe several years ago. Our brands are different but the basics are the same. I had never owned a hoe, but had operated fullsize tractor hoes in the past. The hoe I bought is a Deere #48 to fit my 4310. It will do most anything a fullsize hoe will do but just takes twice as long. In a pure ecomimic sense neither of us can afford to own one for the cost of renting one. Not knowing your age you may be like me, in your retirement years and just always wanted a new one and not have to deal with the reason someone traded off the used one. Most anything decent in a fullsize used tractor hoe was three times the cost of the #48, so tossing economics to the wind I bought the new one and have never regretted it. Frank. ....
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| lbeabes
Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 7 Gaithersburg, MD
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2008-09-09 156546
I appreciate the answers and view points from everyone. The location of the dealer and their attitude is an extremely important factor and why am leaning heavily to the Kubota. Guess the remaining question is "to backHoe or not to back hoe?"
As hardwood stated, he threw economics to the wind and never regreted it. I expect I will be the same way. But the 4310 is quite a bit larger machine than the BX24 and it still takes twice as long to accomplish the task. I begin to expect that the BX might be too small for the stump work in what I expect to be rocky soil. Can anyone out there give some feed back on the performance of the BX24 or 25? on the flip side, if I go with the slightly larger B2910, does anyone have any experience or insight on the manueverability for mowing around trees?
Thanks again for your help.
lb ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-09-09 156548
From my point of view you couldn't pay me enough to use a CUT around trees unless they were all old enough and big enough that there wasn't a branch that was within 10' of the ground!
Aside from the PITA of cutting around trees, a bigger machine will cause a lot more compaction o the soil, that will be tough on either the trees or the turf, neither like well packed soil.
FWIW, the cost of a decent deck, especially a MMM, you could buy a good used commercial rider that would also likely have the turf cut in about half the time as a CUT would take.
Best of luck. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-09-09 156549
But Murf, if you used a mower you don't have as many truff tears caused trying to turn tight around that tree! Seriously, I was using a B2710 with a 72 inch RFM and bought a zero turn mower with a 52 inch deck for just trimming. After about twice of doing that have only used the tractor and RFM maybe twice in two years. Then only when my wife is running one and me the other. The ZTR with 20 inch narrower deck cut the same yard in 75% of the time with less trimming. Not saying a ZTR is the best choice.
I was looking last year for a small excavator to do some rather serious stump removal with and other work. A good friend of mine who was in that business was my machine expert on testing and recommendations. He tried a machine I thought was sufficient and pleased with. He agreeded it was in good shape and priced right. Then he made a small comment about a larger machine the same person had for sale and it got me: the larger machine will also lift the stumps out of the hole after you dig them. What? Is that the problem, not the roots? Bought a machine between the two and guess what...have stumps I can dig and then have to wait for them to dry to lift them out of the hole. Glad they are not going onto a truck for hauling. kt ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-09-09 156550
Kenneth, our problem up here is not so much the ripped up turf, that's a rookie only issue! LOL Our big problem with trees is they bite!
The coniferous trees have very sharp needles, and during the warm weather tend to ooze sap which is extremely sticky. With a front deck mower you can stuff the deck under the tree and remain clear of the prickly & sticky bits of the tree.
With the stumps are you sure it's the moisture and not the soil still attached to them? We use a portable (trailer mounted) water tank and gas-powered pressure washer to clean as much dirt off the stump as possible before lifting it out of the hole. This not only leaves as much dirt behind to refill the hole as possible, but it makes burning (or in our case grinding) the stump a whole lot easier and faster.
Best of luck. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-09-09 156551
Murf, Understand the tree needles. Our pines are a lot like that but I have some leyland cypress and those are so soft you can enjoy them. Wasp are my concern around them. They are nice for privacy and look good. Oh yeah those holly bushes and live oaks keep you on your toes when mowing next to them.
On the stumps, it is both a combo of the water and dirt. Some of these stumps are coming out of holes that are really wet. Depending on the root structure it is amazing how much dirt some roots hold onto. Can see where the washer would be good where you don't have the time to let the stump sit and dry to loosen the dirt. kt ....
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 | yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan 
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2008-09-09 156552
I'd go with a larger tractor and BH combination. If it is over your budget, suggest looking at a nice used unit. Would also forget the MMM and get a zero turn or other stand alone unit. I took my 72"MMM off years ago and never put it back on. I was mowing under and around trees and felt it was a pain. ....
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| lbeabes
Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 7 Gaithersburg, MD
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2008-09-10 156570
Thanks again for all good comments and info. I have lots to consider. Pete, I don't really have ready-cash to buy used so I was relying on the new tractor incentives like the 0% financing from Kubota. On the same token, I don't want my payments to kill me either, so I set an arbtrary limit of 20K. The BX machines fall into that category and gives me the versatility that I wll need - I think. They are about 1000 pounds lighter than the B series so I am hoping that the compaction is not an issue. I do like the zero turn idea for mowing, however I am not seeing anything that is not beat up for under 3,000 (the amount I can scrape up after allowing for the required 15% down on a tractor).
Thanks again for your help. I will let you know on what I finally decide. If anyone has some real-life BX backhoe experience that they want to throw my way, it will be appreciated. ....
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 | bvance
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 280 The Great Pacific NorthWet, Olympia, WA
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2008-09-10 156574
Larry,
You have received some very good advice from some very smart people that are a lot smarter than me, but I think all of them would agree with me that there has never been nor will there ever be one perfect machine that will do everything you want it to do just right.
So....versatility to me is the most important consideration for the average homeowner that needs one machine that will do a number of tasks not perfectly, but adequately. And that machine for the situations you describe in my opinion would be a BX with a hoe.
I own a BX and if I had to do it all over again, I would get a BX with a hoe attachment. I don't need a hoe now that I have everything done, but boy would it have been a lifesaver a thousand times over for me for about 5 years. It will do everything you ask it to and you will be very happy with it.
Once again, it will not be perfect and the one little worry I would have would be when I just want to mow with the tractor, the hoe would not be a good thing hanging off the back and when I would need the hoe, it wouldn't be on. I realize the sales folks will tell you you can change it in about 30 minutes, but it's the hassle factor that would get tiring, not to mention the storage of the hoe when it is off. Trade-offs....
If you have a lot of digging to do, get it and you will love it, because that little machine will come closest to anything else on the market to being the "perfect" machine for you.
Brian ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-09-11 156576
Larry; Bvance brought an important point to us in the retirement category. In your origanal post you said you purchased some retirement property but didn't say if you are at retirement age. The "Hassle Factor" as Bvance brought up is quite an item when the old legs and back don't work like they used to. I think the Kubota subframe mount backhoes use the same basic mounting principle as my Deere. After you have mouinted and dismounted it a few times, it becomes a routine that you know what to do next and how to do the next thing, so 15-20 minutes is a great plenty of time, and the side benefit is that most all of the steps can be done from a standing or kneeling position, hardest part is removing or remounting the three point hitch arms. A mid mount mower on the other side of the coin is a real pain to get at everything you need hook or unhook without laying on the ground to reach under and having to tug it out from under the tractor, or push it back to remount it. I've herd of people using the backhoe wirh the mower still under the tractor, but I can't think that would work very good. As winter comes on the deals on a used mower might get a bit sweeter than waiting till spring. You said you had looked at zero turns and the 3000. dollar ones were magrinal in quality. Perhaps if you could make a conventional rider work the price might be better for decent quality, the zero turns are a hot item and the dealers know that. The one item you mentioned was a box blade, that is probably the most used three piont implement I own and it also doubles as a counterweight for the loader. Hope all this helps a bit. Frank. ....
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| lbeabes
Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 7 Gaithersburg, MD
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2008-09-11 156577
All
Thanks again for the great advice and comments. I am checking with the Kubota Dealer ( yes I have chosen Orange) to ask if he could check some options out for me. I am going for the BX with a hoe but rather than getting the BX 24, I am thinking of getting the BX2660 and have a woods hoe put on it. This way I can get a little better HP, 26 v. 23 and if I remember correctly, the specs on the Woods was a little better than the BX24 BH.
I need the dealer to check if the extra in price will be worth 3 extra horses and what the drawbacks would be to the woods BH v the Kubota. Finally I want to make certain that that woods subframe would not intefere with the MMM.
Thanks again for yoour help in guiding me thru this process. ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-09-11 156578
I've really never looked at a Woods subframe hoe. Woods has a reputation for building good stuff BUT. Kubota tractor with a Kubota hoe, something expensive breaks, so long as it is in warranty and no abuse is found Kuboat takes care of it. Now Kubota tractor/woods hoe, something expensive breaks, now the who's fault is it thing comes into play. Big hassle. For that reason plus the hydraulic pressures, flow rates etc, that are properly matched with a Kubota tractor/Kubota hoe, I've just never been comfortable mixing brands on tractor mounted impliments. Mixed brands on threepoint or tow behind implements are OK with me tho. Frank. ....
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| kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-09-11 156588
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Don't let this cause you to made a bad decision. There are lenders on used equipment beginning with YOUR bank. Depending on your area you may find a good discount on a 2 or 3 year old used machine right now. Much more than any interest of reasonable rate would come close to. I have found compact used tractors can vary in price a good bit here within a short drive. Also don't over look insurance and taxes on the machine. Shop careful for the insurance because the prices and coverage can vary a lot. First placed to begin is with your homeowners company. If they will they normally are the lowest price. Happy Hunting and then digging. kt ....
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| bvance
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 280 The Great Pacific NorthWet, Olympia, WA
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2008-09-11 156594
Larry,
I agree with Frank, go with a Kubota hoe. The matching and warranty issues would be a big issue for me too. I really don't think you would notice the HP difference anyway.
You can have the mower attached while the hoe is on, but I would think with the hoe hanging off the back would be a big nuisance.
Brian
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2008-09-11 156595
I had a BX22 (the original) about 5 years ago, and now I have a Deere 4115 with a Deere 46 hoe.
My 4115 is the same class tractor (weight, power, wheel base, etc) as a Kubota 7800/2910.
I can tell you this much: if you think the Bx24 is under powered you won't be impressed with anything within 1000 pounds of that operating weight.
There is very little difference in performance between my BX and Deere backhoes and the Deere has 500 pounds more dry
weight.
I compare weights because that is where you get a lot of the power to penetrate the soil.
And don't get too stuck on the HP figures. Most people, me included, can't discern the performance difference between a 20 horse diesel and a 26 horse diesel. It is weight and hydraulic pressure that determine most of what you can do with a backhoe.
Bottom line: Assuming your operating technique is up to par (and it does take a while to get the finer points of extracting the most out of a small hoe), and the BX is not doing the job, you will have to go way up in size to get th performance you want.
....
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