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jd 1050 starter problems

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ed wiley
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2004-03-05          78966

having 1050 starting problems.have had starter checked at by starter shop it checked out ok but when starting it takes about 20 times before it will engage the flywheel is there shims that should go on the bolts to space the starter out or what it seems that the starter is trying its best spinning and all but just want engage flywheel. I don't see any teeth broken and like I said the starter is fine it works on the test bench kicking in and out like it should. If any one has an idea what it could be please let me know thanks.


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TomG
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2004-03-06          78986

The starter pinion clearance on mine is adjusted by shims. A manual would have procedures and specs. Clearance might be the problem if the shop didn't have the specs.

The problem also could be a weak solenoid or a weak battery, bad cables, dirty terminals or a few other things. Cleaning the chassis end of the ground cable is good. ....

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e wiley
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2004-03-07          79176

TomG appreciate the reply yes I think if I had a tractor manual that would help. they are hard to come by. I think I will try putting a washer or two between the bolt studs and see if this will space the starter out some what do you think? ....


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TomG
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2004-03-08          79216

I don't think I'd guess or experiment in this case. If you are in a hurry maybe one of the IT manuals would have a procedure and fast delivery time. Maybe if you ordered a shim kit from a dealer somebody would describe the specs and procedures. Hope you can read all of this or you register.

The shims for my Ford of similar size and age go under the solenoid but I believe other makes do go under the starter. My shims are fairly specific parts--rings around the entire mount surface with holes for the mounting bolts. The speced range for pinion clearance isn't very large.

I don't think you want to pick something that is under considerable torque when operated off its mounting surface and onto washers. Guessing and getting a very wrong clearance could break the starter or ring gear, which would become very expensive repairs. Misalignment of the pinion would add a bunch or wear to it and the ring gear. ....

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ewiley
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2004-03-09          79286

TomG Thanks guess I'll have to get manual for the washers did't work. I don't quit figure how the shims work do they space out the starter or what? ....


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TomG
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2004-03-09          79302

On mine the shims go between the solenoid and starter assembly case. The solenoid plunger pulls a lever that pushes the pinion into engagement with the flywheel gear. Increasing the number of shims moves the solenoid further from the starter case, which pulls the lever and moves the pinion closer to the flywheel. ....

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EWiley
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2004-03-09          79364

TomG Thanks again I got to get a manual you said the I&T shop manuals were ok to use. I have been into the starter but did not notice anything about shims. I put it back together and took it to the starter shop and they tested it and it ran and kicked in they said it was working like suppose to but they did not tear it apart. I am pretty sure that shims must be the problem. It is kicking either too far or not far enough to engage the flywheel properly. I do remember seems like there was a small washer like on the plunger or pinion I'll have to get the manual. If you have anymore ideas on it let me know. Thanks Again TomG. ....


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TomG
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2004-03-09          79371

My notion is that the IT manuals are not a complete substitute for the factory manuals, but one might be more available. I've heard stories that some specific procedures or specs may not be present or at least not described very well. Many of them don't have wiring schematics.

My starter doesn't always catch either especially when it's cold. I'm going to go through the whole inspection thing right after spring work is done. I don't think there are enough hours on it so the brushes would need replacing but things that should be fixed can do major damage if left go too long. My theory at the moment is a weak pull-in winding on the solenoid due to age rather than use.

....

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jdgreen
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2004-03-09          79387

It sounds to me as if the drive gear is probably defective. These gears have a one way clutch in them that may be slipping. If the drive is spinning while the starter is on the bench, it is because there is no load on it then. Take it to the repair shop and tell them to replace the drive gear. ....

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ewiley
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2004-03-10          79408

JDGreen I'm not really sure on that when it kicks in it only goes one way some said if it was bad that it would not kick in or it would turn either way so I'm not sure on your message but thanks for the reply and if you have more let me know. ....


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Abbeywoods
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2004-03-10          79413

I think JDGreen is on target. The problem most likely lies in the drive gear. All things being equal, if it worked great before without shims, shims are not the answer. You would have noticed a gradual inability to engage if shims were the issue, sounds like the pinion is spinning under load. ....

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TomG
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2004-03-10          79423

That sounds like a possibility. Most clutches are like a pto over-running clutch and use a ratchet so the engine doesn't spin the starter if the spring doesn't disengage the pinion when it starts. Damaged ratchet teeth sure could produce what is described. You'd think the starter shop would have noticed but I have the impression that not much was done except hook it up and say 'yes it shifts and spins.'

The pinion clearance really should be measured and compared to specs before getting too far into shims. As with all things it's good to make sure of what the problem is before closing on a solution for it. ....

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ewiley
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2004-03-10          79484

JDGreen when it's on the test bench and you put the leads to it it spins and kicks out like it should. Before it got like this it did do a little grinding. Now you can spin it over until it catches the flywheel it usually takes about 20 times trying to catch the flywheel before it will catch enough to get it to crank the engine. What could it be? And thanks in advance for your help. ....


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ewiley
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2004-03-10          79485

TomG I did notice a little grinding before it got like it is now. But with the test leads on it it kicks out and spins like it should. When you turn it over it trys to catch the flywheel but takes about 20 times of bumping the key on and off before it catches and cranks the engine.I don't know what to think now. Any help will be appreciated. ....


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jdgreen
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2004-03-10          79488

I still stick by my original answer. When the drive clutch goes bad, the gear still engages the flywheel, but the gear does not spin when the armature spins inside of it. The grinding you were hearing earlier was the over-running clutch slipping. Have the drive gear assembly replaced. ....

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Peters
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2004-03-10          79490

I can not see how the shims would be long enough to move it in that far to not engage. If it is engaging some of the time I guess out of alignment is out of the question.
Normally this problem is not fully moving to the starting position. Sometimes a battery that does not have enough voltage (low voltage) or poor ground will do this. If you tested on the bench did you use the same battery? ....

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ewiley
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2004-03-11          79602

TomG Just wondering if you or anyone has used any of the manuals from motorcyclebooks.com they advertise all sorts of manuals for tractors, bikes and all. Just wondered if they were reputable place to get manuals from? Let me know thanks. ....


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DK35vince
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2004-03-11          79604

I second the starter drive clutch is bad.
My 850 did the same thing a few years ago, had a new drive clutch assembly installed.
Problem solved. ....

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ewiley
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2004-03-12          79619

DK35vince Thanks for the reply yes guess it could be do you know if the manuals sold from motorcyclebooks.com are on the up and up or not? They advertise all sorts of the same tractor manuals as I&T and others just a buck or so cheaper. DO you have any knowledge on them if not go to that web site and see what you think. Let me know I got to get a manual for it very could be the drive clutch not sure at this point what it is. Thanks again ....


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ewiley
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2004-03-12          79620

Peters Thanks for the reply at this point I don't know I have to get a manual do you have any knowledge of manuals from motorcyclebooks.com they advertise all sorts of tractor,ATV,bikes everything the same manuals as from I&T check it out and let me know thanks for your help. ....


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ewiley
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2004-03-12          79621

jdgreen thanks for reply yes it could be the drive gear at this point I am not sure. Got to get a manual do you have any knowledge of manuals from motorcyclebooks.com they advertise the same tractor manuals as I&T check out site and let me know what you think. Thanks again. ....


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TomG
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2004-03-12          79626

The web link below goes to the JD site manuals search. A search on 1050 returns various manuals including to for the basic 1050 tractor depending on serial number. From the main page, clicking on 'service an support' and on to publications returns a page that offers on-line and 1-800 number ordering. Manuals can be ordered through dealers as well. I couldn't get the on-line link to work so I don't know if the manuals are in stock.

Nothing wrong with the IT manuals for what they are. They might answer your questions and might not. I prefer factory repair manuals but they are written for trained techs and some procedures call for special tools.

Looks like JD spun off a separate publications company but the manuals are offered through the main site. I have several of their Fundamentals of Service (FOS) manuals and find them pretty good. The are intended to introduce basic maintenance principals to techs and are not shop or repair manuals. The JD Publications site is at www.deere.com/en_US/compinfo/publications/john_deere_publishing/ ....


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ewiley
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2004-03-13          79730

DK35vince Thanks for the reply yes it is a good probablity that it could be the drive clutch. I know that a complete starter is around $ 500.00 you said you fixed yours by having a new clutch assembly installed just wondering how much did that set you back and did JD shop do the work. My problem nobody seems to know to much about this little tractor in my area. Any help will be appreciated. ....


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DK35vince
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2004-03-13          79737

I also priced a new starter for my 850 at around $400.
To high for me !!
I took my starter to a local altanator/starter repair shop, he had no problem finding what the problem was or drive clutch assembly that would work.
Total cost of the repair was around $100 and its been working great for several years now.
....

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ewiley
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2004-03-14          79820

DK35vince Thanks for reply that's good news maybe I can do same and hopefully get mine fixed for probably less than $100.00 you think. I start checking around to see. Thanks again for your help. ....


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ewiley
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2004-03-17          80122

TomG, Peters, JDGreen, DK35vince, Abbeywoods Thanks to all of you who replyed to my starter problems. I have order a manual and when I get this problem fixed I will let you all know the out come. Thanks again for all your help. ....


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