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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-01-23          74830

I just got my block heater kit in from the UPS man yesterday. Looks to me like a pretty simple install. These kits will fit the 4210 and up engines. Has anyone here intalled the kit on their tractor? How much anti-freeze did you loose when you took the engine plug out? I would appreciate and lessons learned/feedback on the install and performance.

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cef2lion
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Posts: 41 PA
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2004-01-24          74926

Chief

I had my block heater installed when I bought my 4410 so I didn't install it. Mine is installed on the left side of the engine and appears to be slightly behind something. I assumed they drained the coolant to do the install. When I asked about getting a block heater the sales person suggested that I didn't need one and I was one of few that ever asked about one. I live in central PA. I had a 4310 without the block heater and never had a starting issue even on cold days but I decided to get one for my 4410.

I plug mine in about an hour before using the tractor. It's starts like summer even on the coldest of days and is very responsive and ready to go.

In summary I'm glad I got one.

Craig ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-01-25          74991

Chief: I can't help with the specifics. You probably know that there are good descriptions of how to remove freeze plugs in the archives. What I wanted to say is that it sounds like a good excuse to change the coolant. It may be easier to just drain the block rather than wonder how much to drain to get the level below the freeze plugs. It's probably common knowledge but coolant should be changed every two years anyway. Most compact engines aren't highly affected by water jacket cavitation. However, changing coolant is still good practice in order to get rid of the permanent anti-freeze that isn't. ....

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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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Chief
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2004-01-27          75175

That is not a bad idea Tom. I will have to take a look at antifreeze. The block heater is actually a threaded plug to no removal of a freeze plug is required.

Aside from the John Deere stuff, anyone have any comments of suggestions on PRE-MIXED diesel engine grade anti-freeze.

I would still appreciate any comments, suggestions, or tips on installing one of these block heater kits from anyone who has actually installed one.

I will post my comments and tips after I am done installing mine. It REALLY is VERY helpful when someone does make these comments as it made a BIG difference on how I installed my armrest kit based on Billy's comments. Thanks again Billy! ....

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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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bmocad
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Posts: 52 Rosholt WI
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2004-01-27          75238

Cheif
I put two of those in this fall. On 870 and 4510 deere I did not drain the the block. I had the heater ready with sealer on it. With cap left on it lost maybe quart.
It is imposible to drain the block without taking out that plug. So have everything ready and just do it. You will be suprised how little will be lost. The hardest part was loosing the factory plug on that 4510. It took a 2 foot cheater and a light taping to break it loose. I had to remove my starter. on the 4510 ....

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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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Chief
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2004-01-27          75239

bmocad, thank you very much for that reply!!! That was EXACTLY the info. I was hoping to hear! I have an air powered impact wrench gun and 6 point impact sockets up to 2". I am hoping I can get the plug out with that. I was thinkingt the exact same thing about coating the threads of the block heater threaded plug and having it ready to go when I remove the block threaded plug and just hurry up and install the block heater as you posted. I will have to take a look and see where the plug in on my 4410. Thanks! Great post! ....

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mainiak1
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 22 Maine
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2004-01-27          75246



Good luck with the impact wrench. I put one in a 790 JD my
600lb air ratchet, wouldn't budge it. I used a breaker bar with a 5ft extension finally broke loose. I now have a breaker bar that looks like banana. ....

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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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Chief
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2004-02-04          75972

Gentlemen you were indeed correct with respect to the tightness of the engine block drain plug. It was torqued down to about 1.5 zillion ft./lbs. torque and loctite'd in place. I could not budge it with a 2 ft. breaker bar so I used a 5 ft. long piece of pipe and it broke after about 30 degree of wrench arc flexing the breaker bar. Had to take a break to pickup my daughter from the bus stop but will post any comments about the rest of the install when I am finished with it. ....

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Chief
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2004-02-04          75978

OK, the block heater is in! A couple of things I would mention as an After Action Report (AAR as it was called in the Army).

You definitely need a LONG piece of pipe to put on the breaker bar to loosen the block drain plug. As mentioned before have the thread sealer already on the block heater and have it ready to do in when you take out the drain plug. (a note of advice: tightening down the block heater is a ROYAL PAIN IN THE ARSE so test the block heater BEFORE you install it......just a few seconds plugged in to see if it gets warm.....NO MORE than a few second or you can burn it up)

Another thing to do BEFORE you remove the drain plug is to loosen and remove the raditior cap and then reinstall it. If you don't like I did.........you get anti-freeze coming out of the block under pressure. Be REAL FAST with installing the block heater so minimize loosing anti-freeze. It is a little difficult to do this as there is very little room due to hyd. lines, the starter, and the hyd. pump.

Make sure you have a 1 5/16 or metric equivalent wrench to tighten down the block heater; preferable an offset open end head type. My biggest wrench was 1 1/4 so I had to fanaegle (more like half ass it) with a pair of water pump pliers. (I was commited at this point and had no choice. (did not want to leave the hyd. system open like that until I got a special wrench) You may end up removing the starter (which is another PITA) to get a better shot at the block heater to tighten it up.

Removing the clamps from the rubber hyd. pump manifold was not hard but reinstalling them was a bear. Not much room to work with.

I saved the anti-freeze and ran it through a coffee filter and re-used it. (about 2 quarts leaked out when I removed the drain plug. I lost may a 4 - 6 ounces of hyd. oil. The hyd. pump growled a little until it purged itself of air.

My best advice would be.........if you have not purchased the tractor yet........negotitate the block heater in with the purchase price. Otherwise, it is not that bad of a job PROVIDED you have the correct tools.

Transmission oil heater and under belly guard shield kit installation is next! ....

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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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kadorken
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Posts: 67 Canada
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2004-02-04          75979

Chief, the reason I own a 4310 now is because a block heater in my old Ford 2000 lit the tractor on fire, and it burn't to a crisp (burned until the entire full tank of gas fuel was gone). Luckily, the shed didn't go with it (took 6 fire extinguishers!)

I have sworn off block heaters for a couple of years.

Sorry, should have told you this before you went to all the effort. :)

....

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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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Chief
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2004-02-04          75980

kadorken, sorry to hear about your bad luck. I use a block heater more to minimize wear and tear than anything else. Typically, I plug in my Cummins a few hours before I start it and it sure makes life easier on the intake heater grids and charging system. I will do the same with the block heater on my 4410. Makes for a much faster warm up time. Judging from where you live, I would reconsider that postition on block heaters. Anything can break of malfunction. Do you have a heated garage or at least put a magnetic oil pan heater on?
....

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shortmagnum
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Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2004-02-05          76006

Chief, it's good to hear you have a block heater now. I find it hard to believe that all compact diesels don't come with one from the factory, at least if you live north of the Mason Dixon line. My dealer must have installed one on my Kubota. I thought it was standard equipment but I guess that I was wrong. Surprisingly it started at -5 degrees F without plugging it in. Not surprisingly, it didn't at -20. Now to reduce wear and tear I'll plug it in when it gets anywhere near zero.
Dave ....

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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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popabear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 15 S. E. Michigan
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2004-02-05          76007

Here is a tip from my days working flat rate in a Dealership. When we needed to change out a coolant sensor or heater hose we would take the cap off the radiator and squeeze the upper hose as flat as we could than put the cap back on and than release the hose, this creates a vacuum in the system and helps prevent coolant loss. ....

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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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Chief
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Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-02-05          76018

popabear, great idea and suggestion. Wish I had thought of that before hand. Life and learn. Better to learn as much as you can FIRST! ;o) ....

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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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loghouse95
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 87 missouri
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2004-02-05          76032

I own A Long Farm-Trac 60, I obtained a Part number from Long for a block heater, when I started to install the heater I could not locate the freeze plug for removal, I have sent Long an E-Mail but in the mean time does anyone have an idea where this plug is hiding from me. I know where the drain plug for the block is located but this plug is way to small for the heater to be installed Thanks ....

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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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Chief
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Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-02-05          76034

loghouse95, this is about the most I can think of the bring to your attention. John may be able to put you in touch with someone who can give you the correct info. if he can't. The first name that comes to my mind is Chip Uren.....may want to run this by him as well. Good luck! ....


Link:   click here

 
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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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loghouse95
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Posts: 87 missouri
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2004-02-05          76041

Thanks Chief but did not help me locate the freeze plug..Long is usually real good about answering questions so maybe they can help...Thanks again ....

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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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bigpete
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Posts: 117 Delaware
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2004-02-05          76092

This post is really more about the replacement coolant issue, and in part about these types of installs. I do all my fluid service and leave most any work that can be directly related--later--to warranty work to the dealer. Having said that, I haven't ever bought a tractor that I didn't want to add something to a few months later, so I have added my share of stock accessories to my personal machines and some family farm equip. Having the dealer take care of adding such things as block heaters and additional lighting has probably eliminated a lot of grief for me. It is also customary for a buyer to leverage a few of these extras in as part of the deal.

Anyway, I digress...but wanted to add that I always buy the fluids, filters, and maintenance parts exactly as specified in the manufacturer's documentation, unless there is an obvious or published error. I keep my receipts and know I will never have to worry about being challenged about a non-spec'ed product being the potential cause of a failure. I know, I know...it costs a little more, and it's a bit over the top. But if something mechanical goes wrong with my machines, my blood pressure remains constant as I show my receipts and try to be patient with the folks who will try to blame a problem on anything but a unit or design problem. So...

...I recommend using JD (or your tractor brand) pre-mix coolant for all large quatity coolant replacements. The reason being, that I was informed by my very-astute and helpful dealer shop tech that water pump and cooling system failures under warranty can be challenged when an unknown dilutant is used in combination with (even) stock coolant concentrate. Imagine the reply from the JD tech rep disqualifying your warranty claim.... "..but Mr. Bigpete, we have no way of knowing the quality of water you used, or whether you followed the dilution ratios on the label, or whether you used water at all, or beer or, something else....sorry!"

Guess this was quite a long road for me to recommend the use of pre-diluted JD coolant and keep your receipts. After the warranty is up, use your common sense and buy something of quality for your maintenance supplies.

Pete ....

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4410 Block Heater Kit Install

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kadorken
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Posts: 67 Canada
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2004-02-06          76098

No preheating is done on the tractor and it doesn't have a heated garage. It starts fine in temperatures down to -15 C, and I let it warm up slowly.

My belief is modern engines and oils are designed better for colder temperature starting unlike older engines. For example the rule for our plane is you don't start it without preheat if the temperature < 0 C - aircraft engines haven't changed in 40 years or so. The aircraft engine is also 'designed' to use oil (about 1 litre every 8-10 hours).

No question that a block heater would improve matters, but I haven't had any problems so far except for the one -20 C day (and that was before using diesel conditioner that we discussed in previous post)

....

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Chief
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Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-02-11          76683

I tested out the block heater today. I use it to preheat the engine prior to start to minimize the smoke and warm up time.

If you use it for this purpose; it takes about 1 - 2 hours to warm the engine up nice and toasty in your garage. I left mine plugged in for about 1.5 hours and that was plenty.

If you have the tractor outside it may take 2 - 3 hours or more depending upon how cold it is outside. In severe cold weather give it about 4 hours.

I would say the $55 is money WELL spent on one these block heaters.


__________________

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