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I hate my R4s

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-08-01          60716

After a half day of bushhogging I can say that I made a mistake buying R4 tires with my 4310. When I got into the rough stuff in very dry soil they spun like a slip and slide - and they are loaded and dragging a 728 lb MX5 cutter. I almost got stuck when crossing ruts left by old equipment even in 4WD.

I thought I researched the heck out of my choices, and I chose the R4s because I didn't want to damage our lawn/septic field when driving across it (less turf damage and bigger footprint to reduce soil compression). However they just don't do the job for what I need.

I've got a call into the dealer to see if they will swap them out for a set of R1s. The nubs are still showing on the tread so hopefully that won't be a problem. This machine won't ever be used as a lawn mower anyway.

My advice to new buyers - R4s are a compromise alright, but my guess is that they are much closer to turf tires than ag tires when it comes to traction. Examine your needs carefully.


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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-08-01          60724

I am sure that soil conditions and usage make a big difference, but I like my R4s. I live in dry sandy desert where the terrain can vary from deep sand to hard packed colichi soil. R1s beat you to death on the hard soil. I can go up and down steep hills without ever having a problem. I drive over cactus without punctures and in general could not ask for a better tire in this environment.

I also do a lot of work with my loader on concrete and other pavement. The R4s also work well in that environment. I also trailer my tractor, and the tractor climbs right up the diamond plate ramps on my trailer.

I grew up in MO on a farm and there, we had R1s on everything. More than once, we got tractors stuck up to the axles. I am not saying that R4s would have been better, but in a given situation, any tire may shine or fail. I have no experience with turf tires, so I will leave that to someone else, but I will keep my R4s. ....

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DRankin
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2003-08-01          60727

Dry soil? Hummm.... If you hate you R-4's your will positively despise R-1's. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2003-08-01          60728

What is it about R1s that don't work in dry soil? They look sort of like a less aggressive version of paddle tires they use for sand racing.

I sure wish there was a way to test R1s and R4s side by side to see which would work better here. Our soil is strange. It looks like red clay. When it's dry the surface layer is quite granular and the R4s don't seem to do well in that. When it's wet it turns mucky and sticky, and I don't know yet how R4s will fare in that. Here it is wet 8-9 months of the year so our predominant condition has yet to be tested.

When I nearly got stuck I forgot about the differential lock. I'll have to try that next time. What can I say, I'm still a rookie!

....

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Art White
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2003-08-02          60736

Make sure your air pressure is low enough. The tire should be touching fully across the ground. You can check it very easily by looking at the bars on the tires for a dirt imprint. The R-1 will clean better due to the steeper bar angle. They also will give a smoother ride do to less strength in the sidewalls. ....

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bvbilski
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-08-02          60742

Did you have the FEL mounted or front weights on to help the front tires get some traction? ....

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TomG
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2003-08-02          60747

The thing about R1's and hard ground is that the lugs have to fully sink into the ground for them to work. Otherwise the tractor is riding on not much rubber. Compacts don't have enough weight to sink R1 lugs into many fairly common soils. Ballast helps.

If you have a loader it will get you out of most mires. Curl the bucket all the way forward, sink the blade into the ground and pull the curl back. It will work going forward as well but it's more effective going backwards. When my 4wd went out, the tractor wouldn't climb a wet ramp up to a flat bed. We had to find a hill to lower the ramp angle and still had to push the tractor backward up the ramp with the loader.

A couple of weeks ago I was turning over a compost pit using loader and box scraper. I have turfs and couldn't back out of the pit and pushed myself out with the loader. I remembered the diff lock. I forgot that I disengaged the 4wd to turn the tractor around on the lawn so I could use the loader in the pit and then forgot to re-engage the 4wd. We're all novices. Duh! 4wd worked when the diff lock made no difference. There probably wouldn't have been a problem with R1's but then the problem would be with my wife 'cause I have to drive across a lawn to get to the compost pit.
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BillMullens
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2003-08-02          60749

Art is right on about the tire pressure. Proper pressure can help a lot; I used my TC29 for months before getting around to checking the pressure. It was much too high in all tires (for shipping, I guess). I can say that in WV soil, the worn-out, original R1's on my '47 Farmall get better traction than the new R4's on my NH. The only way I can get along with the R4s is with 4wd. But, I finish mow with it, and can't use R1's. If I had a dedicated lawn mower (this option is looking better every year), I'd switch to ag tires in a minute.

Bill
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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-08-02          60755

Ken, I was gonna suggest checking tire pressure too. When I checked mine the pressure was all over the place but not where it was supposed to be. I would carefully consider R-1's. If you ever think you may need to drive across yours or another's lawn, the R-1's will definitely let everyone know you have been there. I have found that R-1's are horrible on a smooth or dry dusty surface. This was demonstrated to me while I was on active duty observing the soldiers towing helicopters in and out of the hangar. The R-1's would slip very easily. They work good on soft soil where they can get a good bite. The R-4's did much better on a variety of surfaces. The tire casings are about as stiff and tough as you can get on the R-4's short of going to converted 12 ply aircraft tires which makes them pretty puncture resistant but not completely. What postition do you have the Motion Match and Load Match set in? That can make some differenceas well. ....

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DRankin
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2003-08-02          60759

I wonder if your tires are over filled with fluid?

Anyway you don't need much pressure: ten pounds or less will probably do the trick.

If it were my tractor, I would get rid of the liquid ballast and go with maximum amount of wheel weights. It really makes a difference to have the tire CARRY the weight instead of having if CONTAIN the weight.
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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2003-08-02          60777

bvbilski, I did have the loader installed and instead of the bucket there was a 600 lb grapple, so I don't think weight on the front was the issue. However, the front tires were filled to their max pressure of 49 lbs so that may have been too much. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-08-02          60778

Thanks Art. Apparently the dealer filled them to max pressure prior to delivery, 49 psi front and 30 psi rear. The tread shows a dirt all the way across but I probably can look at the tread on the pavement and tell how they are sitting.

Here's a dumb question - with loaded tires how do you let air out of the tires? Do you just let CaCl squirt out the valve instead of air?
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kwschumm
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2003-08-02          60779

Thanks Tom, I've heard of using the loader to help pull the tractor out when it's stuck, but I have no experience with that. Something new to try!

I'm not sure if R1s would sink in here or not. The guys who built our house sunk their R1s and R4s in DEEP when the ground was hard but they had awfully big equipment.
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kwschumm
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2003-08-02          60780

Chief, I sure wish I could have a set of R1s to try out here. Right now we have only fields with no lawn, but when I put the lawn in I was gonna buy a dedicated mower anyway. I am absolutely sure the R1s would work better in our wet winters but I don't want to tear up our gravel and dirt roads either. Maybe dropping the pressure will help enough. At the time my rear tire was spinning I had over 1200 lbs ballast on the back end between the loaded tires and the MX5/iMatch. Should that have been enough? The diff lock would probably have helped me a bunch but I just forgot about it. I was in MFWD at the time. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-08-02          60781

Mark, I hope they're not overfilled - is there a test for that? They were filled at a busy dealership by a guy from a very reputable local tire shop so I hope they know what they're doing. The tires do flex when a load is added.

I really don't want to drop to 4PR tires. Maybe the pressures are too high at 49 front and 30 rear. The JD manual says the minimum pressure for the rears is 20 lbs though. You run less than that successfully without breaking the bead?

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kwschumm
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2003-08-02          60784

With all the responses I made I still forgot to answer Chief's question. LoadMatch was ON and MotionMatch was OFF when the tires lost traction.
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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2003-08-02          60790

Loadmatch on should give you the best possible traction and the motion match set to the slower smoother setting should help as well. I will check my tire pressure tommorow but 49 & 30sounds pretty high to me. I will have to verify. I suffer from CRS and have to go back and verify alot these days. ;-) I am just not that sure that R-1's are going to help you out that much. ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
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2003-08-03          60807

Debating tires is like debating condoms. Ya just gotta try them all in a variety of conditions.

My experience with R-4 is all on Commercial Backhoes they work good on hard gravel, they road and work good on pavement, they take twisting and turning with massive bucket loads. But they are not worth a damn on wetsoiland especially wet soft soil I'd spend more time pushing with the hoe. 4WD helped. I can only think of a few places I would consider them on a compact. 1 of those would be a commercial landscapers yard loading small trucks and carrying pallets mostly on hard ground.

R1s have been on all the farm tractors since steel wheels went out. We went from 45 deg to 23 deg now we are back to 45 deg with the best radials going. The side walls buldge more than a soft Ford Explorer tire. Awesome traction. Yup I've been there with the buried to axle thing.

I had R1 on my little Ford 1500 and to this day I saw NO damage to the lawn. Except when it was real wet and then I'd use my little lawn tractor to mow and that would still leave marks for a day or so. The R1s do not work on a snow packed drive way at all. (This discussion is in the archives).

I had turfs R3 put on my new 4400 and I believe they are the best all around tire for small compacts doing a variety of chores around the home. They have great traction on the lawn, brush hogging, light loader work, snowy/icey drive and the list can go on.

I do find myself wishing I could have more traction when on wet soil but I'd only leave bigger marks or dig a deeper hole to get out of. So when I need more traction I install my tire chains, it takes 15 minutes on and 5 minutes off. Turfs and chains, when I need em, seems to me to be the best of all worlds for my use around the house.

BUT with all that said it is my belief, others have already said it. TIRE PRESSURE TIRE PRESSURE TIRE PRESSURE. Throw the God Damn Manual out the window. Soften the tires until you get a FULL width imprint on your driveway. Adjust the pressure for your tractor doing what you do with it. If you have a mower set that where it works, not rides, to adjust the pressure. If you are gonna spent the day with a heavy implement working adjust for that day. Again there is no one fits all tire pressure and the engineers write the manual to CYA.

Now to debate ribbed, non ribbed, lubricated, non lubricated, ticklers... and where they work best fat ones, skinny ones and evey thing inbetween...probably need to discuss the size of your tractor ;-) NUFF SAID!

Hope this made ya smile have a great day! Harvey ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2003-08-03          60819

I run eight lbs. in front during the winter for the best traction. Twenty lbs. is way too much. I said that, or she said that--can't remember which. Happy day back atya. ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-08-03          60822

Calcium filled tires still have some air in them. You should be able to check the pressure and release some air with the valve stem on the topside of the wheel rotation. ....

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Chief
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2003-08-03          60826

The ribbed get the best traction. ;-) ....

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kwschumm
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2003-08-03          60831

Harvey, great post. Too bad they don't make ribbed condoms for turf tires :)

TomG, you run 8 lbs in those tiny little front tires with a loader installed? What do you run in the rears? At what pressure point are you likely to break the beads?

AC5ZO, I did try letting some out with the valve stem at the top and water squirted out. In a properly filled tire the entire rim is covered, isn't it? I've never seen the inside of a valve stem on a tractor tire though - is there some sort of extension on the inside of the rim that is supposed to extend into the air of a properly filled tire?
Maybe Mark is right and loaded tires are more trouble than they're worth.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and ideas. ....

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harvey
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2003-08-03          60842

Ken that is a problem with little fat tires. The big ag tires you can ballast to the valve stem and have a 75% fill. Little fat tires would be lucky to have 55% fill at the valve stem.

When I was filling mine I'd suck all the air out of them which air vacum afer I'd seated the beads and then start fluid. Always had fluid over the stem and would have to dump that if I'd overfilled a little.

You might try taking the tire off the tractor and lean to one side trying to get the stem at the highest point. I do not know if you have fluid valves or not. They would look like a 2 piece stem and under the valve cap you would see a regular looking do hicky thingy. If you have a second section of valve, you can try a 1/8 id copper tube a foot or so long. Wrap plastic tape around the pipe until you think you have it big enough to plug the stem after you remove the big part of the stem and get the air out that way. MAKE SURE TRACTOR ON A GOOD JACK FIRST! You'll loose some fluid but not much that way.

I have lots of fluid stuff still have a barrel of calcium and all the valve patches.

I do not use fluid in the compact but I do in the little lawn tractor and the old farmall.

Have fun and BTW do not lick your fingers after playing in calcium. Harvey ....

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harvey
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2003-08-03          60843

My edit button did not work. Will have to post Dennis. Anyway I only have 8-10# on steer under loader and never change that ven with heavy loader work. Rears are 10-12 I think. I really never use a guadge I look at print. BTW I've never broke a bead, YET! Probably shouldn't have said that. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-08-03          60847

Harvey, thanks for the info but I don't like what I'm reading. What an incredible pain it is to reduce tire pressure in loaded tires. I think Mark is right that loaded tires are more trouble than they're worth.
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bvbilski
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2003-08-03          60851

Did you try to engage the rear differential lock? ....

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kwschumm
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2003-08-03          60852

No, I forgot about the diff lock. A couple of others mentioned this to me as well. What can I say, I'm still a rookie who is learning!
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bvbilski
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2003-08-03          60854

Just yesterday I was brush hogging and had trouble in a very rough wet area. Several times I got the weight of the tractor on opposing corners, then the other two wheels would break loose and spin like crazy. Engaging the diff lock pulled me right through. Be carefull when you engage it though because it will want to go in a straight line. ....

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Chief
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2003-08-03          60859

Ken, I don't know what I was thinking about. I forgot about that too! Good call on the differential lock. Just gotta be easy about engaging it and take it real easy about turns. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-08-03          60860

The JD manual has a big warning about not using differential lock when on hills or when turning. I can see that bad things might happen if you expect to be turning, hit the diff lock and the tractor keeps going straight.
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bvbilski
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2003-08-04          60876

The differential lock does not usually need to be engaged for a very long time. Just until you get traction again. Also you can bump the steering break on the rear wheel that is spinning to put some torque to the side with traction. One other point is to make sure your not spinning fast when attempt either maneuver. ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-08-04          60890

If you need to reduce pressure in your tires, I personally would just lose some of the fluid balast. The ballast will weigh up to about 15 pounds per gallon depending upon how much calcium they put in the water. So, if you lose a couple of gallons of fluid, it is only thirty pounds per side. The extra air will provide a little better ride on the hard stuff.

The calcium in the tires is calcium chloride and is the same chemical that they sell to deice driveways in the winter. This is not dangerous to you or to the ground, although it will probably kill grass if you dump it directly on there. You can save what you take out and use it later if you have a jug that can store it. ....

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Chief
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2003-08-04          60892

When the dealer filled my tires they filled it with an anti-freeze solution kinda like windshield washer fluid. They told me they stopped using calcium chloride because it was so corrosive the farmer hate it if they have a blow out and it spills in their fields. Nothing grows there for years. I had to park my tractor on a steep slope and let some fluid and air out to set the correct tire pressure on mine. ....

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AC5ZO
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2003-08-04          60899

One of the main reasons to use calcium chloride is that it is so dense. It is easy to make a mix that ranges between 10 and 15 pounds per gallon of fluid.

Winshield washer fluid, radiator antifreeze, and the non-toxic antifreeze solutions all have densities of less then seven pounds per gallon. They will not freeze, just like the calcium chloride solution, but they only provide about half the weight ballast. In my opinion, it would not be worth using fluid for half the weight. Steel wheelweights would be a better choice.

....

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Art White
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2003-08-04          60900

Everyone else pretty much filled in for me here but let me add another pennys worth. The 75% fill that is refered to for the calcium is to the valve stem when on the top of the rim. The air pressure is even harder to watch by tire print when calcium is used as it slows down the tire reflexes to the ground. Big pumps like what a tire shop or ours will over fill with calcium and very well will pressurize to 50lbs pressure with no trouble. You should have a full tread imprint on the ground or tire. The fronts of coarse with loaders need a couple of extra pounds to carry the load. The rear might show some tire squat and a full bar when carring the full load of the hitch mounted items to. ....

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Art White
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2003-08-04          60901

Everyone else pretty much filled in for me here but let me add another pennys worth. The 75% fill that is refered to for the calcium is to the valve stem when on the top of the rim. The air pressure is even harder to watch by tire print when calcium is used as it slows down the tire reflexes to the ground. Big pumps like what a tire shop or ours will over fill with calcium and very well will pressurize to 50lbs pressure with no trouble. You should have a full tread imprint either on the ground and or tire. The fronts of coarse with loaders need a couple of extra pounds to carry the load. The rear might show some tire squat and a full bar when carring the full load of the hitch mounted items. We often are into the ten lbs range when finishing these tractors out. This works as many people have given our tractors smooth ride ratings over other makes. ....

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kwschumm
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2003-08-04          60921

I'll experiment with dumping some of the fluid. I don't think I want to remove the tire and lay it down to dump the air because I'll probably not be able to stand it up again without help. I don't have a hoist to use to pick it back up.

On the Firestone ag tire page they show a tool that is used to fill the tires. It looks like the tool could also be used to deflate just the air in the tire when the stem is positioned at the top. Has anyone used one of these tools? What are they called, and where can you get 'em? We don't have TSC in our state.
....

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kwschumm
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2003-08-05          61034

I was talking to the dealer about skid plates and I asked him about the loaded tire issue. The way they came from the dealer, with MAX pressure in all tires, I can stick my thumb between the lugs and the ground on all tires so that is definitely where some of my lost traction is.

He said to just position the tire with the valve stem at the top and let it out, fluid and air, and eventually just air would come out.

So I asked, "Won't exposure to air cause the inside of the rim to corrode?". He says, "We haven't had a problem with that."

I like loaded tires less all the time.
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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2003-08-05          61036

I've participated in past strings covering several of the subjects hit on in this string. My 2cents(have a JD4700):
- R4's: I don't like them for much of the same problems you found. Will not use in the future.
- R1's: I had em on 3 CUT's and they didn't tear up the ground if you're careful. If you want to spend some $, investigate Goodyear et al for R-1 radials, and check out some of the available tread patterns that give better fit to the usage (as stated previously, there are lots of different patterns in R1.although the selection for CUT's isn't hugh)
- Filled tires are a pain. Better to buy wheel weights.
- Keep the trac in 4wd if you have any slopes or angular ground - it's amazing how easily the R4's will slide when in 2wd.
- Use the diff lock and you'll be amazed at where you can go. But be aware that when you release off the pedal, the lock will stay engaged until it senses equal wheel spin. That means the diff may stay locked in a turn, which will be difficult to execute and the inside rear will tear the hell out of the grass. Better to pause, allowing the diff to drop out of the lock.
jim ....

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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2003-08-05          61037

Oh yeah, about the tire pressure. I diddled with my R4's a lot trying to improve on the tendency to slide when going sideways on a hill. The advice about discarding the manual advice is right on.
My approach was to lower the pressure until the tire showed a little "belly" at ground contact. This allows the bias ply tread to make full contact with the ground (something that radials don't worry about).
I kept my front pressure up somewhat because of the loads when FEL'g. But found I had to go to 5-10 psi in the rear R4's because they have such a stiff sidewall. Never had a problem with rim slip, but you have to adjust when the temp drops to keep the pressure up; otherwise leakage starts.
jim ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-08-05          61038

Jim, thanks a lot for confirming what I suspected, what others said and for the tips. Although my dealer was willing to swap to R1's for me I thought those might bring their own set of troubles on hard, dry soil. So I'll drop the pressure way down and stick with the R4's for a season. If by next spring I still haven't learned how to deal with these problems with tire pressure and differential lock I'll spring for a set of R1 tires and wheels and see if they're any better. If that happens I may end up keeping both sets, swapping as needed, or selling off the one I like the least. I'm still learning lots, mostly due to the great folks here on TractorPoint.
....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2003-08-05          61039

Ken, I saw your post on unloading tires. Unless the dealer that filled your tires used calcium chloride you should not have any corrosion issues or problems. If they did like the dealer did mine; it is nothing more than basicly a windshield washer solution. I was under the impression that most dealers and tire places no longer use calcium chloride due to it being bad for the environment. I think you will be ok if you let some fluid and pressure out. Something else I thought about but did not think was very practical was tire chains. May be good in snow and muck but you don't get much snow do you? ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-08-05          61041

Chief, mine are filled with Calcium Chloride. I don't think CaCl is necessarily bad for the environment - it's just a salt, like sodium chloride. If you dump a bunch on the soil you may have trouble growing stuff for awhile until rain dilutes it down, but I don't think there would be any long term damage.

Chains are a possibility for me. We get snow maybe 2 out of 3 years, usually not more than a foot or two a year. Some years, though, there is a LOT - but we haven't seen it in the three years we've been here.
....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2003-08-06          61052

For the issues with calcium, most dealers are stil using it. It provides the most amount of weight per gallon of all liquid ballasts that are in use. The best weight to use is cast iron or bolt on weight as it doesn't hinder tire flex or the work that a tire needs to do to provide optimum traction. Radial tires do give better traction when all things are used right, no exceptions that I've found, seen, or heard of. They do so good in the big tractor industry we look at one size smaller to equal a bias ply tire. Many tires we do offer the option of tubing right from the purchase of the tractor. With the pressures we work with and the calcium it's just the best way to go. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-08-06          61064

My new tractor (the 4115) came with R-4's on it.

They are labeled as SKID STEER TIRES and as I have posted in another thread, they will not "go flat" even with no air in them, the bead separated from the rim, AND 150# of wheel weights bolted to the sucker.

There is no way those things are ever going to flex enough to be usable on my 2000# tractor.

Well, maybe with 6000 pounds of ballast.......?? ....

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JD/Kubota in Alabama
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2003-08-06          61068

I have a JD5400 with R1's and have a JD 990 on order with R1's, as all at dealers seemed to have the R4's. Have used the R1's since early 70's for general hobby farm use. Both the JD Tractors are 4WD of course. I also have a Kubota 4wd with both Turf tires/rims and the R1's. For General Property use in the country, I will always recommend the R1's. For Turf use, the Turf Tires or R4's will work. For Pavement, Lawn use, etc alot with a Loader the R4's seem best. The kubota does OK with the turfs bushhoging on the farm, using the 4wd as a backup for slick spots, I would not put it into mud, but it would pull a little there from on experience I had. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-08-06          61069

Ken, if you think even a small CaCl spill will be diluted by the rains you better start building an Ark.

A neighbour here accidentally spilled some CaCl that he was spreading on the driveway for dust control on his lawn. After 2 years he finally dug the area up and put in new soil, and what he was using for dust control was NOWHERE as heavy a mixture as you have in your tires.

Around my cottage people spray it intentionally along cottage roadsides to keep the brush back and prevent scratching vehicles and to increase sight lines, it completely strips the vegetation and it won't regrow for years, I have also seen spills in farm fields that sterilized the area for many years.

Best of luck. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-08-06          61070

glug, glug. Thanks Murf, I stand corrected.

I've heard of some folks using antifreeze solution in their tires. It seems to me that stuff would be far worse than CaCl since it's very toxic. I'd hate to leak that stuff onto the ground and have it seep into my well water.
....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-08-06          61073

The only solution to the solution dilemma is not a solution. It is chunks of iron. ....

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-08-06          61074

There are non-toxic and less toxic antifreeze solutions rather than ethylene glycol. The problem with all of them as balast is density which will be about half that of CaCl. If I don't get all that weight, then why not chuck the fluid altogether and go with iron weights and be done.

I use CaCl solid salt to deice my driveway when it is needed, but then again, I live in a desert, so you might not notice if a plant would not grow. I agree that the concentration from spreading the solid crystals on ice is not likely to be as high as dumping heavily loaded ballast fluid.

If you need to drain some fluid, catch as much as you can and use a hose to dilute anything that you spill. I would certainly recommend doing any of this work on a gravel paved area rather than on the front lawn. I have had people tell me that the CaCl is caustic/corrosive and that it will burn you. It will corrode exposed metal, but so will sea water. CaCl is very safe to use.

Comments about R1,R4 and turf tires always have to take into account the terrain and usage. R4s work well for my usage. If you have hard soil and the lugs of your R4s are not digging in, then you will not like what you experience with R1 tires, because they won't dig in either and the lugs have to flex a lot more to make a patch on the ground. Granted the sidewalls of most R1s are more flexible to start with, but R1 tires get their traction from digging into soft soil.

I have no personal experience with this on my tractor, but Turf tires might actually provide better traction on hard smooth surfaces. Perhaps Mark can comment on this. But, I have taken my off road trucks places where I won't drive the tractor and they certainly do not require a lug tire for traction. Now the question that remains is what tire works best for ALL of your conditions?

Some are going to be better in soft ground. Others are going to work better on hard surfaces. Still others are going to work better on lawn grass. We have had similar discussions in the past about what works best on ice. This is another one of those questions where the answer is not the same for everyone, every place in every situation. ....

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-08-06          61076

One afterthought. I use well water and it is very hard water. So, I use a water softener. The water softener uses salt to regenerate. The water and salt that are flushed through the water softener go to a drainpipe.

The salts that are drained from the water softener are CaCl and MgCl. These are dilute, but at one house out here in the desert, the most lush plant growth was where the water softener discharged the salt water. You can see white salt crystals in the soil, but plants still live there. Please remember that this softener drains in the same place every two days, and it goes through over a hundred pounds of salt a month. All of this is chemically converted to CaCL and MgCL and flushed out the drainpipe. This has been going on for several years. If I need to kill plants, I use Roundup. ....

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boatman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 49 Idaho
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2003-08-06          61079

There are a lot of tractors in this region of all makes and sizes. This is an agricultural economy. Mostly row crop farming. Things produced are onions,potatoes,sugar beets,beans,corn,hops and even some vineyards. The tire fill solution of choice is CaCl. Many of the older tractors around (yes some guys use their old JD row crop tractors right along side their new ones) have had CaCl their entire life (30-40 years) and are still using the original wheels(of course many have had tubes since new). I realize that everyone seems to have an opinion but here where people depend on their tractors to make a living, CaCl is the ballast of choice. If you are worried about wheel corrosion,and you want liquid ballast,don't hesitate to go with tubes and CaCl. Note:I am using CaCl in my TC30 tires without tubes.For me,wheel corrosion is a non issue/land sterilization from leakage is a non issue(if you're worried about the effects of leakage,obtain a CaCl sample from a local supplier,apply to a patch of grass and see for yourself the effects/non-effects).

I always keep my tire pressures within the manufacturers recommended settings. On my NH TC30:8-32PSI Frt(25x8.50-14)(R4)and 12-20PSI Rear(15-19.50)(R4).On my JD50 with Ag tires I run 12-14PSI rear(11-42 tires)and 40-44PSI front(9.00x10 single). As Art has stated, adjust for footprint with load(different loads will require different pressures)however,I would not recommend going lower than the manufacturers recommended pressures. Then I would check the pressure to see where it's at for future reference. As time goes by, you will know in advance what to set your pressures at depending on what you are going to be doing. If you are at the lowest manufacturers recommended tire pressure and have the maximum amount of recommended ballast and are still slipping,then you should change operating procedures(diff.lock,4wd,bias braking applied dilligently,front to rear weight bias).

Kwschumm, I don't think that I would change tires just yet. I believe that with 600lbs. on your loader the front tire pressure should probably be in the 30PSI range (instead of the max. 49PSI-but that does depend on your tires load rating-underinflated/overloaded tires will be damaged). It is quite possible that if you had applied the differential lock (and your rear tires were properly inflated-I believe they were overinflated) you would have climbed right over that berm - making the use of 4wd and thus front tire pressure irrelevent in this situation.Note:if JD says minimum pressure is 20PSI then don't go below that unless on the tire sidewall it specifies a lower minimum pressure.Another note:it is also possible that 20PSI may be too low with that weight hanging on the back - if in doubt it would be better to add a couple lbs above the minimum(i.e. 22PSI).Now, assuming the same situation except with rear tires properly inflated,diff.lock applied and still slipping, it is possible that you would need to use 4wd and have the front tires properly inflated. If still slipping with all tires properly inflated,diff.lock,and 4wd applied, then with 1200lbs rear ballast and 600lbs front balast, you may need to add more front ballast(especially with 728lbs of your rear ballast hanging way out back).

To check/adjust your air pressure:first, make sure that you are using a pressure guage specified for liquid filled tires. Make sure valve stem is located at 12:00 position. In your case(tires may be overfilled?), I would jack up rear of tractor to take weight off of tires. Next, release all of air pressure along with whatever fluid escapes.Then simply re-inflate to desired pressure. Note:reason for jacking up tractor is that tractor weight may force too much fluid out of tires. Future pressure checks should not require jacking up tractor as you now will have the fluid level correct.

Don't give up on that 4310 with R4's. That's a mean machine and a good tire.Good luck. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-08-06          61090

Thanks, Boatman. It's likely that the two biggest problems I have with my R4s are overinflation and a dumb operator. After I solve both of those problems I'm sure the R4s will work better.

As far as inflation goes, some people say it's fine to go down as low as 5-10 lbs, others say don't go below the manufacturer rating. There is no minimum on the tire sidewall so I guess I'll have to resolve that one myself. I'll try it down to the JD minimum of 20 lbs to see how it goes, and will drop below that only if I think I have to.

Thanks for the tip on jacking up the filled tires when letting air out - I hadn't thought of that, and it makes good sense.
....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2003-08-06          61096

As time goes on I realize that more & more of the things my Dad & Grandfather taught me were all too true.

One of the lines I heard constantly when there was a problem with the performance of a piece of equipment was "Found the problem, there was a loose nut at the wheel."

More recently I have discovered, OK, so Dad told me so on Sunday when they were over for dinner, that I'm the 'loose nut'....

Mea Culpa .....

If we can't laugh at ourselves what's left to laugh at, especially that Bob Hope is gone.

Best of luck. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-08-06          61098

My dad used to tell me all kinds of things I sneered at when I was young, and now I know he was right. I suppose I was born a loose nut and will likely always be one :) ....

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2003-08-06          61099

They also say that "You can't teach an old dog new tricks!" but I plan to keep on learning new things till I am dead. But, right now I need to go pee on the fire hydrant. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2003-08-07          61193

I thought I'd report back on my R4 traction problems.

My fronts were at 49 lbs and I reduced them to 30.

The filled rears were at 30 lbs and I dropped them to 18 lbs (2 lbs less than JD's minimum recommendation in the manual). Boatman's idea was very helpful - jacking up the rear made it easy to rotate the tires until the valve stem was positioned at the top. Letting air out of the RR was uneventful, with very little fluid coming out, but fluid squirted out of the LR for about 5-6 minutes until I got air. So they were unequally filled and there probably wasn't much airspace in the LR.

The ride is a heck of a lot better now. After doing some bush hogging I didn't have any traction problems, but the soil was softer today since we had some light rains so I'll have to see how it goes when it dries out and gets hard again.

Thanks to all for your advice!
....

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