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 | peterhoyt
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3 South Texas 
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2002-10-11 43724
Hi. I have a JD 4300 with the power beyond hydraulics for my 48 backhoe. Anyone know if the power beyond plumbing would work with one of those 3 pt cement mixers sold by NortherTools or Tractor Supply? No one at the local retail outlets knows squat about how the mixer works. Alternatively, does anyone know if there is a dealer in the states for the SpiralMix mixer sold by Teagle?
Thanks!
Pete, Dallas, Texas
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL 
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2002-10-11 43725
There is a NA supplier for the Teagle mixer. It is pricy. Unfortunately I have lost the address for the supplier. Most of the mixers are not hydralic driven, you only need one set of lines to dump the mixer. Obviously this is unnecessary for the teagle. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-10-12 43736
Assuming the hydraulics are for a dump, the JD power-beyond kit should operate a single spool open-centre valve OK. I don't know if dumped mixers return to level by gravity or if double-acting a cylinder is needed, but the power-beyond attachment should operate either type valve. However, some type valves may require an additional hose directly to the sump.
It would be easiest to ask a dealer to identify an appropriate valve-for a single or double acting cylinder and with or without power-beyond capability. It is a power-beyond application since the valve would be ahead of the 3ph.
....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-10-12 43746
That mixer is made by Farm Star, but I cannot find the web site right now. I am sure this link is the same unit. It has quite a bit of info. ....
Link:
Click Here
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-10-12 43753
I'm sorry you are right the Teagle also comes with hydraulic drive too, at an increase in price. I e-mailed Teagle and got the US distributor. ....
Link: Teagle Mixer
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2002-10-12 43754
Pete, you will most likely note the recommendation for at least a 30 HP tractor. I don't think it has to do with PTO output, if it did we would commonly find 25 HP mixers. Rather it seems to be about tire size and how high the 3 point hitch comes off the ground. It is about tipping it at enough angle to dump the contents. Something to check before you spend the bucks. ....
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| peterhoyt
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3 South Texas
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2002-10-12 43757
Thanks everyone. I'll look into this further. I just got back from the Dallas Texas State fair where I spoke to several JD dealers. Apparently it will cost me about $400 at a dealer to get the necessary plumbing. He told me the power beyond won't work for this because it just provides a loop in the hydraulics to power the 48 backhoe.
That was an expensive fair! Cost me $3900! But only cause I bought a 25x30 foot steel building from American Steel Span. It was their "demo" model. Now I'll have a better place to store my JD but now I really need that mixer! :)
Thanks,
Pete ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-10-13 43768
Peter: I'm not sure where the dealer was coming from. A hoe just has a valve assembly that's fed from the PB line coming from the loader valve assembly. So another valve assembly instead of the hoe should work just fine.
Maybe dealer means that the PB kit uses different sized quick connect fittings on the send and return lines so the pressure and return lines to the hoe can't be confused and therefore a standard connection to a valve can't be made. I believe that's true but it's a matter of fittings not function.
From what I've heard, I wouldn't describe the kit as a loop but rather an extension. A PB return line comes out of the loader valve outlet section and normally goes back to a manifold block and on the the 3ph. The kit extends the PB line to the rear and supplies quick-connects so another valve can be hooked in series with the PB line. There is a short hose to connect the two quick-connects together when the PB outlet isn't used.
There is an issue of an appropriate valve since the 3ph is downstream and lifting a heavy load on the 3ph places high pressure on the entire system upstream from the hitch. For this reason a valve suitable for power-beyond applications should be used and some suitable valves provide a separate low-pressure return line that runs directly to the sump.
The dealer also might anticipate that the valve would be mounted on the tractor rather than the mixer, and that's the way I'd do it because a rear valve controlled outlet is very handy for running hydraulic top-links and 3ph implements that require hydraulics. A valve on the tractor that runs from the PB kit would have quick-connect ends or hoses dangling around when the hoe was in use.
So, if the dealer's $400 price is for installing a rear valve controlled outlet that is separate from the PB kit, that might be interesting and doesn't seem like a bad price. The only other explanation I have is that the kit is something very different from what I think it is.
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| peterhoyt
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3 South Texas
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2002-10-13 43777
Thanks for the input Tom. I'm not sure what I'll do with this idea but next chance I get, I'll follow this up with another dealer closer to my land. If I learn anything useful, I'll be sure to post it here so it is available if anyone else does a search of this message board on "Cement Mixer" like I did. :)
Peter ....
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 | harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY 
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2003-02-03 48566
Morning Peter
The PB for the backhoe on the 43/4400 tractors, (I do not know about the others), by passes the 3ph. I was considering, still am, using the PB to run a splitter for the faster cycle times, thus dragging less equipment to woods. Problem If I build a 3ph splitter the 3ph won't work with the PB connected. That goes to my other post about extension hoses, I have to use an extension hose to hook BH so I can unhook PB loop and hook BH system. I am not sure if there is a work around this 3ph/PB disconnect with a "T" and a couple of valves or not.
I am assuming you want to use the 3ph to mount the mixer and PB to run the mixer.
I am plodding thru this issue because the PB has awesome potential if the 3pt system will still function.
I haven't bugged JD yet about the loop.
Later Harvey
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| kadorken
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 67 Canada
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2003-02-03 48567
Could someone clarify the difference between the 'power beyond' and a 3rd SCV? Can you use a 3rd SCV to control a
log splitter attached to the 3pth for example?
(Perhaps a log splitter that doesn't have it's own control
valve, and you use the 3rd SCV as the controlling valve?)
Thanks in advance ....
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| harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2003-02-03 48569
Morning
The 3scv remote valve is seperate and you could use this to run any cylinder seperate of tractor configuration. Proble with the remote is the cycle times and the placement of the valve lever away from the work area. You could use it anyway with a open center valve on the splitter but again the cycle times will be slow because of its size.
The remote would be great for the top link hyd cylinder.
Harvey ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2003-02-03 48572
I've really not studied the circutry of the hydraulics on the 4300, but when the tech. at JD put it on for my hoe, he warned me not to have the engine running with the PB hose disconnected from the 3pt. circut or the hoe circut, so I'm assuming it's a direct circut from the pump, w/ or w/o a relief valve in the line, I don't know. I think you should talk with a JD tech to see wht type of SCV to use to provide pressure relief/bypass, or whatever type valve that won't damage your tractor system. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-02-03 48573
Morning too.
Power-beyond is just a confusing term. It really refers to an application in an open centered system where there is a down-stream valve (often the 3ph). Working downstream valves may create high pressures over the entire length of the high-pressure line, which includes any upstream valves. Valves rated for PB applications are designed to withstand this pressure. PB valves either have heavy exhaust oil galleys or a separate return line to the sump for exhaust oil.
The confusion comes because many PB valves have two return lines and the one that carries the pump oil is called the PB line. A PB kit usually involves splicing an entire valve assembly into this line to create additional downstream valves. The hookup usually is for something like a hoe that has its own valves and the kit does not have it's own control valve. The kit also has to have a separate hose to reconnect the PB line when the hoe isn't connected.
A 3rd SCV valve is a 3rd control valve section in a loader valve assembly. The assembly may or may not be PB rated. Additional control valve sections can be purchased separately for some assemblies. Hope this helps but I'm not sure if it adds to or reduces the confusion.
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