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 | neilw
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5 rainbow,texas 
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2001-12-09 33722
I just bought my first new tractor, a JD 790 w. FEL. Does anyone have any experience with synthetic oils in tractors?
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2001-12-10 33724
There's a lot of discussion recently and in the archives--just do a search for 'synthetic.' I heard various people say that synthetics shouldn't be used until a tractor is broken in. Guess that covers both the engine and transmission. Several people in a recent thread said that some cars come from new from the dealer filled with synthetic engine oil. So, I guess I'm not sure, maybe the issue is about HST's rather than engines. At any rate, it's probably unnecessary to use expensive synthetic oils before a break-in oil change.
The general take on synthetics is that it's hard to beat them for all season use, especially in areas subject to cold winters, and HST's are supposed to run cooler when a synthetic is used. The various opinions on whether synthetics make engines and HST’s last longer etc. can be read about in the archives.
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2001-12-14 33821
When Tom talks about a breakin change, he is talking about something that is not in the new car manuals. I am not sure that it is in the new tractor manuals either. Anyway it is still a good idea to change the oil after a few hours of running. When the manufacturer machines the tractor parts he may not get all of the abrasiive off the parts. Therefore this abrasive can remain in the engine and wll be picked up by the oil. The abrasive particles can be finer than the filter and therefore can circulate through the oil. If you stay to the normal specified service schedule then the abrasive can cause a lot of wear in this first period of time.
If you are going to remove this oil after just a few hour then normal oil is cheaper. After this change the synthetic is fine and you can return to your normal service schedule. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-12-15 33829
Peters: there's been some discussion about people finding considerable metal filings in HST screens after a few hours. I suppose that sort of stuff is filtered out, and there's no harm to the engine unless there's enough so a filter becomes clogged before a scheduled change--I thought a 50 hour change is sort of standard.
I'd tend to do a quicker change whether or not it's needed. I remember pulling the cylinders off my '69 Honda 750 (purchased new), and finding an internal chamber still filled with casting sand. True enough that casting sand doesn't fly around like sand at the beech and a gasket did cover the chamber. Maybe I over-react and there was actually little risk, but just the same, a hand full of sand sitting on top the cases made a lasting impression on me.
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2001-12-15 33833
Tom
The cleaning process is much better than years ago but I was more concerned with the carbide dust left from the honing and grinding of the cylinder walls, valves etc. Material left from sand casting or blasting could also be a problem. The filings are probably too large to circulate through the filter, but the dusts from these operations is small enough to pass through the filter and cause premature wear.
A portion of the sand blasting and grinding dust is fine enough to cause silicosis, which will also pass through the oil filter, causing wear in the first few months of use.
I am not sure whether the engine manufactures anticipate this as the final polishing or not. I gave my 5.9 L Cummings a quick change and it is now just starting to breakin and the gas milage is starting to increase to 19 from 17 after 36000 miles. I learned a slow breakin was better. Are there any other views? ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-12-16 33848
Slow is good is my sense too, but not to 'baby' an engine. I run bursts of rpm up to max and also short periods of heavy loads. With gas engines, I periodically take my foot off the accelerator no matter what I'm doing, and also look for hills to coast down under compression and also helps seat the rings. I’m not sure if the idea applied to diesels as well.
I believe that the high intake manifold vacuum under low throttle draws oil down the valve guides into the upper cylinders and helps break-in. Even so, it still took over 5,000 miles on a 302 Ford rebuild for it to stop taking a quart of oil between changes.
In the motorcycle business I learned to watch for bikes where the headers were heavily blued near the cylinders. It's a sign of running a hot engine. those engines never seemed to be quite right, and I always thought it was mostly from new bike owners who wouldn't wait for a proper break-in before running their engines hard.
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| ibboatin28
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1 ohio
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2002-01-20 34791
Since you brought up breaking in an engine I'll relate the following. I went to the Detroit Diesel plant to see how they build engines. I was amazed that when after they are built they go directly to the dyno. After the water, fuel exhuast etc are hooked up they fire the engine up and immediatly go to full rpm's AND full load. These engines then run like this for apx 2 hours. I always thought they would let them warm up. Baby them a little but did not find this to be the case. I suspect that many engines are probably close to being broken in when you receive them. Just my .02. ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-01-20 34794
Maybr that is why the Detroit is considered the least desirable engine for heavy trucks.
Also considered a dog in the light trucks and was dropped a couple of years ago by GM and Chev. ....
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 | cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York 
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2002-01-20 34798
Now you guys have me thinking. Are you suggesting an engine oil change on a new tractor at less than the 50 hours the manual states? I am not quite to 20 yet, perhaps that is a good time? I have always heard that the factory uses a "special" break in oil that should be left in until the required time. Old wives tale???? We switched to synthetic in both our Jeep and Toyota, I am unsure what the interval should be. I anticipate running them around 4-5k rather than three, but really don't have a guideline to follow. ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-01-20 34802
I guess there are better people at engine building than I, but I always ran a new engine/rebuilt engine for a few (1-3) hours and then changed the oil. I would have run longer (5-10) but normally the customer was looking for his boat.
I do not know of any special break in oil used. I have never seen any at any of the auto plant I have been in. Some advertise the use of synthetic now, but in general it is the lowest bidder same as usual. ....
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| jd110_1963
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 87 westminster, md
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2002-01-20 34803
I would not recommend changing the oil at less than 50 hours, especially if you are planning to use synthetic. I am personally not a big fan of synthetics. Not because there is anything wrong with them, but I feel it is wasted money because I would not be able to stand leaving the oil in as long as the manufacturer suggests. I have been working on diesel engines for 25 years and if you use quality oil and change it at recommended intervals, it is unusual to need an overhaul for lubrication related failures. I personally know of a john deere engine in a 4250 ag tractor that is still going strong after more than 25,000 hours of use without so much as a valve adjustment. The only engine related repair done was a water pump rebuild after 13,000 hours. On the other hand, I have seen engines fail at low hours from using low quality oils and failure to service them properly. If engines last indefinately with quality petroleum oils and proper service, why spend the extra money for synthetic? Kenny ....
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| neilw
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5 rainbow,texas
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2002-01-20 34805
Since I posted this question your comments and referrals to other discussions have provided me with the information I needed. I think my best action is a three phase approach.
Phase one is changing the oil and filter early (10 hours in my case)using John Deers 15w-40 oil. This I've done with all my vehicles since I read a book by Robert Sikorsky called " Drive It Forever"
Phase two change the oil and filter at fifty hours as recommended by John Deere. Again using the Deere 15W-40.
Phase Three change the oil and filter at 200 hours. This time using a synthetic such as Amsoil 15W-40 , Delovac 1 or the new Shell Rotella Synthetic.
Thank you all very much.
neilw
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