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Lug nut size on JD 4100 HST

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GJ Archibald
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2001-08-27          31317

I just took delivery of my 4100 HST and went to check on the tightness of the wheel lug nuts after using the tractor for a few hours and was surprised to learn that the front wheels have different size lug nuts than the rear wheels. I do not have a socket big enough for the front nuts, so before I went and bought different size sockets, I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me on the size of the front lug nuts ? Thanks, Gavin

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steve arnold
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2001-08-27          31322

standard car/pickup 4-way lugnut wrench should work ....

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Terry Senay
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2001-08-27          31332

Gavin, from what I have seen, the 4100 mostly metric for a start. Take a look at your owners manual. Towards the back there is a table with all of the different bolt sizes used on the tractor. There is a number stamped on the bolt. You will see something like "10.9". Go to manual, look up the bolt. You will see torqueing specification and, I believe, the metric size. Hope this helps. ....

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GJ Archibald
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2001-08-27          31333

Thanks for your help....I will check this out....
Gavin ....

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TomG
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2001-08-28          31345

For most purposes, metric tools are needed only for sizes less than 14mm. Starting with 14mm = 9/16", standard tool sets in sixteenth do OK for larger metric sizes. Anyway, I've taken the larger metric wrenches and sockets out of my toolboxes to save time fishing around for the right wrench. ....

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Peters
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2001-08-28          31377

Just wandering but isn't this the way that the British Auto industry crumbled? Part metric, part SAE and part Whitworth. You had to stand there with 3 wrench sets in hand. My 97 Ford was about the same.
Peters ....

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TomG
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2001-08-29          31396

Yep, I worked in a BSA shop in the early 70's, we'd get Whitworth, SAE and Japanese metric on the same bike. I've still got a tool box with the remnants of three tool sets. Wrench fishing sure did slow down the work. At that time, BSA N. America was collapsing and getting parts was interesting. I wonder if the manufacturer cared. What did they expect trying to sell a W.W.II engine design mostly on the basis that Japanese bikes looked and sounded funny? I guess when Brit manufacturers finally reacted and build the 750cc 'threes' they waited too long, and their market had disappeared. The other thing is that I liked the old Whitworth hardware. The threads always started and seldom stripped, cross-threaded or corroded. It was expensive to manufacturer though. Too bad it also disappeared along with many other good things that were displaced by lower quality, but cheaper, alternatives. With today’s hardware, it’s not uncommon for me to throw a new bolt in the trash because the manufacturing process left it without starter threads. Maybe a few N. American large manufacturers could find take a lesson form the Brit bikes. Well, I guess it’s a rant, but I kept it short. ....

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kay
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2001-08-29          31405

Tom. I'm curious what you use for 15mm? Also, the sizes 17, 18, 20, 21, 25, 26, 28, 29? I know 15mm is sometimes missing in a metric set, so I had to buy those separately. Are some of the other metric sizes just not used, allowing for using the standard ones?
A 11/16 won't fit on an 18mm, and 3/4 is pretty sloppy. A 3/4 is a good match for 19mm, as is 7/8 on a 22mm. But some of the others will cause one to go fish for the correct metric, or get out the adjustable wrench (crescent). Enlighten me if you would, please. ....

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Terry Senay
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2001-08-29          31407

Kay, I would like to find out the same information. I just finished my first 50 hr maintenance and found out the same thing about some of the socket sets. I have an impact socket set for standard and metric sizes. A bunch of the bolts are in between. It's maddening. I certainly don't want to try and use regular sockets on an air-driven impact wrench. ....

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Peters
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2001-08-29          31411

The nuts on the rear of my JD 750 were an odd size also. I believe that I used a 32 fractional. I had also found some other bolts that did not seem to fit correctly either set. JD/Yanmar mechanic job security?
To complicate matters there were two metric standards, DIN and ISO. I am not sure if the heads are different sizes but the threads were cut differently. Does anyone know about the heads? Could Yamar be using the old sizes or are they trying to cut what they think is SAE in Japan?
I ran into a similar problems with square drive bits (Robertson) from Dewalt. Not a good fit.
Incidently the hydralic pipe threads are still Whitworth, world wide.
Peters
....

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Rob Wheeler
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2001-08-29          31413

I'm not sure if this will format OK - apology in advance if it is unreadable. This is a list of SAE sizes (by 1/32 inch) converted to metric (mm), and back. I know the conversion is easy, but it is nice to see all in one place. My favorite find has been for a 54 mm wheel spindle lock nut - turns out it is practically identical to 2-1/8 inch.

STANDARD SAE SIZES STANDARD METRIC SIZES

SAE SAE Equivalent SAE
fractional decimal Metric Metric decimal size
size (inch) size (inch) equivalent (mm) size (mm) (inch)
1/4 0.2500 6.350 6 0.2362
9/32 0.2813 7.144 7 0.2756
5/16 0.3125 7.938 8 0.3150
11/32 0.3438 8.731 9 0.3543
3/8 0.3750 9.525 10 0.3937
13/32 0.4063 10.319 11 0.4331
7/16 0.4375 11.113 12 0.4724
15/32 0.4688 11.906 13 0.5118
1/2 0.5000 12.700 14 0.5512
17/32 0.5313 13.494 15 0.5906
9/16 0.5625 14.288 16 0.6299
19/32 0.5938 15.081 17 0.6693
5/8 0.6250 15.875 18 0.7087
21/32 0.6563 16.669 19 0.7480
11/16 0.6875 17.463 20 0.7874
23/32 0.7188 18.256 21 0.8268
3/4 0.7500 19.050 22 0.8661
25/32 0.7813 19.844 23 0.9055
13/16 0.8125 20.638 24 0.9449
27/32 0.8438 21.431 25 0.9843
7/8 0.8750 22.225 26 1.0236
29/32 0.9063 23.019 27 1.0630
15/16 0.9375 23.813 28 1.1024
31/32 0.9688 24.606 29 1.1417
1 1.0000 25.400 30 1.1811
1 1/32 1.0313 26.194 31 1.2205
1 1/16 1.0625 26.988 32 1.2598
1 3/32 1.0938 27.781 33 1.2992
1 1/8 1.1250 28.575 34 1.3386
1 5/32 1.1563 29.369 35 1.3780
1 3/16 1.1875 30.163 36 1.4173
1 7/32 1.2188 30.956 37 1.4567
1 1/4 1.2500 31.750 38 1.4961
1 9/32 1.2813 32.544 39 1.5354
1 5/16 1.3125 33.338 40 1.5748
....

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Rob Wheeler
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2001-08-29          31414

OK, that last post DID come out lousy. If anybody wants a readable copy (as an Excel file or bitmap), send me an email. ....

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Lug nut size on JD 4100 HST

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kay
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2001-08-29          31416

Rob Wheeler. Thanks for your input and table. I cleaned it up a bit to look at, and if the SAE standard sizes were common in 32's, they would certainly cover several more metric sizes (I stayed within 0.01" to assume they were usable, but that depends on the bolt or nut tolerance, which I didn't check out). ....

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TomG
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2001-08-30          31418

Kay: Rather than say I'll get back to you because my tool boxes and tractor are at our camp, I'll say I believe I use 5/8" for 15mm but I can't be sure because a 15mm is in the tool box sometimes. As you say, some of the fits are sloppy. If a bolt is tight, I don't bear down on it but go and fish the metric out of another toolbox. My difficulty is that my 1/2 ton is in inches and the tractor is metric. If I work more on the truck, more inches wrenches end up in the tool box, when I work on the tractor there's more metric. Tools sort of float back and forth between boxes depending on what I'm doing. What I want to avoid is having a bunch of wrenches in the box. Then, I end up spending most of my time looking for the right wrench or socket (I have Whitworth tools as well). It was a service tech who first told me about the larger metric sizes trick, and generally it works for me. Perhaps I should have said 'can get by without larger metric sizes' rather than 'don't need them'. I'll do a test and see how well I think a 5/8th fits on 15mm when I'm at the camp today and other sizes as well if you're interested. My tractor won’t have all the sizes you mentioned. Most of my tools are 30 year old Craftsman, Husky or SK Wayne. They weren’t expensive tools at the time, but they may fit snugger than some new ones. Of course, when I used Snap-On in a motorcycle shop, they fitted so snug that I'd sometimes have to clean off bolt heads to get a wrench or socket on. ....

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TomG
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2001-08-31          31442

A bit of a surprise when I got to the tractor. The loader is positioned so I couldn't open the hood, but there are no 15mm bolts on the tractor that were accessible. I did put calipers across some open-ended wrenches and found the metrics are around .3mm oversized. My 5/8th is just under 16mm so it would be a fairly sloppy fit. Maybe the rarity of 15mm on my tractor is why I've never noticed that 5/8th would be sloppy on 15mm. Even then, it probably would work for me most times. I doen't tighten things very tight and use grease on threads during reassembly (except for bolts torqued to specific valves) so I seldom have to bear down on a wrench or socket. I also don't round the corners on hex heads, which is the risk of using sloppy wrenches. There seems to be a general lament here about the sloppy tolerances in hardware and tool manufacturer. That does create problems for mechanics without expensive hand tools. It's sort of ironic that 12-point sockets used to be desirable and fairly expensive. Now it seems that 6-point ones are desirable because newer 12-point ones tend to be so sloppy that they turn around on bolt heads. Anyway, my subject here really is tool box organization. I don't want to carry around a box that weight a ton or spend a bunch of time fishing through a bunch of wrenches each time I need one. Using inch wrenches for larger metrics works for me most times. Wish my dad’s A&E hand tools from WWII survived the various family moves. There were really good tools from companies that probably aren’t around now—Bonney and Blue Point for example. ....

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