Go Bottom Go Bottom

John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Ken
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-02-25          13157

If John Deere watches these boards and admits they have problems with theiraxels why don't they notify us or have the dealer notify us.KenW

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Larry in MI.
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-02-25          13163

I agree. My JD4100 has the problem but so far only the 4200 and up have made mention of a fix. My next tractor will be blue if this problem is not fixed by JD. It was a close call last time and I am not happy with my dealer. Next time the bug bites I will go blue. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Shawn McCorkle
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-03-01          13300

Why doesn't JD notify owners when they reduce recommended first change of hydraulic fluid (HST's)from 500 to 50 hrs? Are they now too cheap for even the price of postage? Used to be, we'd always buy green, and sometimes pay more, for the peace of mind knowing our dollars bought quality from a company that would stand behind their products and work hard to keep us coming back. This has not been what I have experienced with Deere over the past year. If there's a next time for buying a new tractor, a visit to blue and orange will definately be made! PS. Still waiting to hear back from the dealer on warranty replacement of my lawn trenching front axle. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Tom VanKirk
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-03-01          13307

I'm new to the board, and have been having the infamous scuff problems also (I purchased a 4300 4WD with R4 tires last summer). I just contacted my dealer, and he told me that Deere is in the process of sending out upgrade kits for all 4000 models regardless of tire type. My dealer guesses this upgrade would start in the next few months. That's the latest I've gotten, and from past experiences, I don't think he's making it up. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Lee Anderson
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-03-04          13457

Just heard from my dealer about my scuffing problem. He said that John Deere will be sending him a new front axle for my 4200. I sure hope this takes care of the problem. I do not know if JD will notify 4000 owners of this fix or if the squeeky wheel gets the oil. I have been calling my dealer every couple of weeks since I first heard of a possible fix on this board! Good luck! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-03          14416

have been reading all the posts and thoroughly confused. Have a JD4400 and am not sure what everyone is trying to accomplish. If you use 4WD how can you expect the tractor do dig in without scuffing. These tractors were designed for a close turning radius and it seems like adding extra tie rods only defeats this, plus it gives something to be impacted and disturbed. Looks like the solution would be to install slicks on the front much like lawnmowers have. Of course you defeat the traction. These are a comibination contractor/mowing/farming tractor. I'm sure if JD has come out with something it probably is a consumer compromise defeating their intented purpose of the machine. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Terry Weivoda
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-03          14419

Chuck, the scuffing is not limited to the use of the tractor in 4 wheel drive. The tractor scuffs badly in two wheel drive even at moderate turning angles. There have been posts on this board where potential buyers have tried the new axle and are quite clear with their claim that the new axle does not scuff. I saw the new axle on a 4400 at a local dealer although I did not have the opportunity to drive it. It appears to be built heavy enough. If you use the tractors to mow with the old axle you will be disappointed. If you don't mow with the tractor it may never be an issue. When I used my 4300 (or my 4600 as soon as it is delivered) for loader work or snow removal it really is not a problem. I am not willing to accept the claim that these tractors are a compromise between an ag tractor, loader tractor and a mowing tractor and that front tire scuffing in two wheel drive mode is a fact of life. The fact that Deere made the change would suggest that they don't agree either. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-03          14422

what is the appearance of the new axle. I purchased my tractor in December. Any serial#'s ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Tim
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-04          14436

There's no reason the axle fix need be a "consumer fix" or be weaker.
It sounds as though the original problem is just that that steering
linkage doesn't turn each wheel the proper amount throughout its
whole range. As you reach the steering limit, the inside wheel is
following a much smaller radius circle, and has to be turned more.
(See the New Holland Supersteer machinations for the extreme example
of that.)

I'm kind of surprised that the onl fix they could devise mandates
changing the axle instead of just the steering linkages, but I
haven't looked at the original axles.

tim
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Troy
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-04          14440

Can anyone tell me if the scuffing problem is limeted to the 4wd models only??

Thanks ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-04          14461

I've mowed my yard with a 420/430/1010/B/50/520 and they all scuff if you corner under power. Personally I think this scuffing issue is all out of proportion. The compact utility was designed for tight cornering. In my opinion the best handling doesn't always produce the best results. Wouldn't this be similar to using a 4 wheeler if you turn hard. I can't seem to get at the after factory design that is going to change this steering. Where are the specifcations and or photos of the design. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Terry Weivoda
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-05          14477

Chuck, You are beeing too easy on John Deere. I for one have been extremely critical of John Deere on the MFWD scuffing and other issues. I am a long time dedicated fan of Deere products. I wear JD clothing. I talk about their products at work. I am one of their biggest fans. But they, for lack of a better term, screwed up the MFWD axle on the 4000 tractors. As you know, Deere products come with a premium price tag. I have been willing to pay the premium price because I was getting a premium product and knowing that if there were problems that Deere would stand behind them. The 4200-4400 tractors were replacements for the 755-955 tractors. As I have stated before on this board, my 855 would actually turn shorter on turf than my 4300 (in two wheel drive) because if I turn more than about 30 degrees with the 4300 the turf is ripped up badly. This does not happen on the 55 series tractors. I don't think those of us who have complained to our dealers and on this board are overreacting. $20,000 pieces of equipment that are advertised as excellent mowing machines should be expected to mow without doing the damage that the tractors with the old MFWD axle do. It takes me longer to mow with my 4300 than it did with my 855 due to the fact it requires 3 or 4 forward to reverse maneuvers on each turn to avoid the scuffing. Finally, I keep getting back to the fact that Deere has changed the axle and is replacing the old axle for some owners who complained. The complaint must have been significant (and Deere must have recognized there was a problem) or they would still be producing the tractors with the old axle. I am glad that 4000 series owners complained and refused to accept and inferior Deere product. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-05          14478

Terry, sparring the disortation and emotionalism of the complaint, all I want to know is where is the photo and specs of the new item. Of all these complaints you would expect someone to have a "photo" of the new design. How can all the consumers approach their dealer without the information. I seen lot fulls of these tractors and I haven't seen "the new design". I'm not sure I would want a "new design" but would like to see one. Is this the "abonomable snowman" or what. Let's get some evidence on the board for the folks. Forgot to say my IH Cub will also scuff. Also I'm not sure I saw any of the 4300s or 4400's in the adds with farm tires and or R-4/R-5 mowing any grass. I bought mine under the viewpoint that these were a utility tractor. Of course I was raised on a farm where we had scuffing all the time. Don't take my message wrong as I want to see some information. Please put some photos of set up on the board. Thanks, ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Mike S.
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-05          14486

Chuck--Terry posted the following description, in lieu of a photograph, of the new front axle on February 15: Just got a fax from my dealer, fax reads the new style 4 wheel drive front axle uses a standard double-acting clinder with a solid tie rod located behind the axle. to facilitate this design, a larger steering pump and steering valve is required to provide enough flow for efficient sterring. If you examine the old style axle and then examine the new style axle, they are significantly different as per Terry's description.

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
turfman
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 97 midwest
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-05          14487

Hey guys,
I have to say that I am with Terry, I too have had both a 755 and a 955. When either of these models was turn to wheel-lock the scuffing was at most minimal in 2wd and some in 4wd. My 4400's are bad, terrible, or even worse. I have now had 2 4400's and the first one was really bad, the new one is not as bad but still not good. I got rid of the first because of some lingering transmission probs and the dealer let me out of it for nothing on new one. And since I have shown such faith in JD they are rewarding me with a new axel on the new 4400. The design changes from my very early production model to this are pretty dramatic. One thing in particular is that this unit is half a load. Go figure? The only thing wrong is the axle. When I get my new one I will be sure to get a pic of before and after. The thing that gets me is that so many people are buying this unit as a mower because of the excellent reputation of the x55 series as mowers. As my father says, "why the hell did they change coca cola?" I say they have excellent machine except for the turning issue, I just got the 1999 coporate report for Deere and they say the the Commercial and consumer Products division had a 20% growth rate due mostly to unexpected demand for utility tractors. If I ran Deere, I'd find the guy that okay'd the original axle and fire him. At $3500 a unit for replacement the profit goes out fast. just my 2 cents. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chris in IN
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-05          14489

I took some pictures a while ago. They turned out pretty good considering everything is black. But I do not know how to post them. If anyone has any ideas let me know. Chris ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-05          14498

just received a bunch of pics on the front end. There is an "abominable snowman" after all. The design has a radius rod at the rear of the cylinder attaching both hubs. In my opinion it is similar to automotive steering. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Randy Eckard
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-06          14509

I would also like to see the new front axle pics if someone could send them.

Thanks
Randy ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Brent Lowe
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-06          14529

I think I can give the engineering explanation behind the scuffing
issue. I am a mechanical engineer for an automotive company. I do not work
on steering or vehicle handling, but vaguely recalled discussing steering
in a vehicle dynamics class from my college days. I borrowed a text book
from a friend who is currently taking a graduate vehicle dynamics course.
The following is paraphrased from "Theory of Ground Vehicles", by J. Y.
Wong of Carleton University, Ottowa, Canada.

At low speeds there is a simple relationship between the direction of motion
and the steering wheel angle. The prime consideration in the design of the steering system is to reduce tire scrub during cornering. Therefore, all wheels
should be in pure rolling during the turn without lateral sliding. To
accomplish this, the wheels should follow curved paths with different
radii originating a common center.

This is hard to explain with out drawings, but essentially the outer wheel (during a turn)requires a lesser steer angle than the inner wheel in order to reduce scrubbing. This steering geometry, referred to as Ackerman steering geometry, is designed based upon the fundamental vehicle (tractor) parameters wheelbase and track width. Again, this is much easier to explain with the use of drawings. It makes sense that JD had to redesign the axle and add the solid tie rod to get the steering geometry correct and solve the scuffing problem. I have a 4300 MFWD which scuffs very badly. I took some crude measurements today and it
appears that I get the same steer angle on both wheels. No wonder these things tear up the turf. The outer wheel has the same steer angle as the inner wheel and therefore is being pushed across the turf. I can't believe JD engineers missed such a basic design characteristic. As I mentioned, I am not an steering systems engineer, but the basic engineering concepts are simple and well known. By the way, I stopped by a JD dealer today and looked for the new axle design. I did not see any. I did notice that the JD4100 has a different front axle design from the rest of the 4000 series tractors. It has a double acting hydraulic cylinder which actuates the left front wheel and then a solid tie rod connects the left front wheel to the right front. I have not seen any complaints of scuffing on this board from 4100 owners, other than one person who had a bent tie rod and too much toe in.
Hopefully this explanation helped.

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
JeffM
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-07          14538

Brent, excellent explanation! I, too, was educated as an engineer and was in product development for about 12 years with a Fortune 100 company. I also find it hard to believe that JD engineers could mess up a basic design principle such as you described. Actually, it is my understanding that the front axle design is from Dana, but I don't know if that includes the steering linkage and geometry also. My past experience suggests that "basic" flaws such as this are usually due to communication problems (could have been in requirements, design or development phases) between different engineering teams, especially with distributed engineering scenarios. Either that, or "wet-behind-the-ears" engineers working without adequate management, mentoring oversight, and design reviews. My 4400 should arrive next week and I'm awfully curious to see the front axle. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
JeffM
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-07          14541

Another possibility is that the JD engineers were too smart. Maybe the steering cylinder on the original design was supposed to proportion the hydraulic flow in such a way as to provide the different steering angles to each wheel. I'm not a hydraulics engineer, or even a hobbyist, but it seems that this would not be an extremely difficult design problem. However, it would require that a manufacturer could reliably build such a cylinder. All this guessing! I wonder if we will ever get a posting that really sheds light on what happened here. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
dave g
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-07          14558

does this serious problem exist in the 4100. would like to know before i purchase. i work with truck stering, suspension, lifting, lowering. this shocks me that JOHN DEERE produced such a product. did find a good deal on new 4100. would also like to say exellent site, most informative. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-07          14563

well made a yard test tonight on the scuffing with my 4400. It would not scuff until the steering reached almost full turn. Under normal turning there was no scuffing at all. I examined the controls and I have the original axle. I received 6 pics of the new axle and it looks like somewhat of a rigged item. Not neat at all. But one thing struck my thoughts while mowing. This tractor was designed for heavy use also with a loader bucket and or contracting. The scuff as it is called is also a bitting end effect. Could this not have been the purpose with the loader and or equipment. Everyone is thinking about mowing, but with this effect the front end should be more stable with the loader. Naturally it is going to scuff but this would be better than sliding under power. The photos of the unit I received were not impressive. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Jim Youtz
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-08          14565

Dave g. I have not noticed any scuffing with my JD4100, except at full turn with 4wd. But I don't mow in 4wd, so its not a problem. I really like this tractor. From what I've seen, none of the new model design flaws that seem to show up in the 4200+ size tractors seem to be a problem with the 4100 (the 4100 is different than all of the other 4000 series tractors and the 4100 is entirely made in Japan). If this tractor is the size you're looking for, I would buy it if you get a good deal. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 0
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-08          14566

Chuck, as you look back on the threads from last year, apparently some of the old axles would scuff only at lock, and others would scuff when turned less than 1/3 of the way. It took a long time for us to convice each other that there was a problem at all. This was mostly because the degree of scuffing was so variable. Several tractors scuffed hard enough that they left black marks on pavement when turning. To me, that was the clearest evidence of a problem. Lots of us have other makes of compact tractor -with loaders- and do not have a scuffing problem. As you say, when the bucket is full and I am in 4wd at full lock then I can make mine scuff a little on a wet lawn. But I cannot make it scuff on the pavement at all. It just turns. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 0
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-08          14567

Chuck, as you look back on the threads from last year, apparently some of the old axles would scuff only at lock, and others would scuff when turned less than 1/3 of the way. It took a long time for us to convice each other that there was a problem at all. This was mostly because the degree of scuffing was so variable. Several tractors scuffed hard enough that they left black marks on pavement when turning. To me, that was the clearest evidence of a problem. Lots of us have other makes of compact tractor -with loaders- and do not have a scuffing problem. As you say, when the bucket is full and I am in 4wd at full lock then I can make mine scuff a little on a wet lawn. But I cannot make it scuff on the pavement at all. It just turns. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-08          14574

I think everyone needs a lot more information. I know I could go raise H.....at my dealer who is my 3rd cousin and he probably would get JD to send one of those front ends, but I'm not convinced that I even want one of them. Maybe that would make a smooth turn to the eye with these contractors tires but what I find later that I have problem with a loader, ie and find that JD made these axles to appease the homeowner that wanted the 4400 to just finish mow. See what I mean. Now I've lost the other front end, got that whacky designed one with all the radius rods, ie..."guess you figured I wasn't impressed with the design". Where the rod fastened looked weak to me, plus you have the rod possibly in the way. In my book the jury definitely is not in on this issue. Mowing may be one aspect, but if you put this front end under 4000-5000 # loads that equipment better be right. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Terry Weivoda
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-08          14576

Chuck, As far as I know you are one of the few 4000 owners that have praised the old MFWD axle. Perhaps for your application, the old axle was fine. I keep coming back to the point that other manufacturers were able to design and build a tractor with a short turning radius without the problem. Kubota and NewHolland, Cub Cadet, Massey, Etc, also build tractors with front loaders designed for heavy weights but also manage to work as mowing tractors without the scuffing problem. My neighbor's TC33D NewHolland with the Supersteer turns a tight radius with only the slightest scuffing and that it when it is at the maximum turn angle. My dealer's JD representative says he has over 600 of the new front axles (and new steering pump, steering valve)in his area alone to install. I don't think this complaint is limited to a few people who want to mow their lawn. I use my 445 for mowing my lawn. I use the 4300 for various chores (including mowing) around my tree farm. I also do custom mowing in a large park area. I suspect that the 4000 tractors are doing a lot of mowing in private and commerical applications. Maybe that is the problem. Perhaps Deere anticipated more use in the commerical landscaping business where loader/backhoe applications would be common. In these cases the scuffing issue may never materialize. But Deere sell mowers (at a premium price) for these tractors and they advertise them as premium mowing machines. If they can't mow without tearing up the turf then they should not have been sold with the mowing attachments. This way, customers who placed a high importance on mowing could have bypassed their JD dealer and visited their Kubota, NewHolland, Cub Cadet, Massey, dealer instead and purchased a tractor that could do both. As long as it took Deere to respond to this complaint (and the loss of customer confidence) I am confident that they have adequately tested the new axle before it went into production. I seriously doubt Deere wants the embarassment and the cost of another failed MFWD axle. When I went to get a price on the NewHolland TC40D, my local NewHolland dealer asked me if my 4300 did any damage to the turf when I mowed. He said NewHolland dealers were told at a sales meeting of Deere's "scuffing" problem. When the competition openly discusses this problem with customers it is a big issue. I don't know what Deere will be doing with all of the old axles, steering pumps and steering valves that they get back after the warranty repair but perhaps they will be available to anyone who wants the old axle. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-08          14579

they'll just have get a bunch of the modified designs in folks hands to see if they hold up. Guess I'm just not the consumer activist type...understand the viewpoint. Thanks, Chuck ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chris in IN
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-08          14582

Chuck I'm glad you are happy with your tractor. I am one of those contractors you say JD designed the old axle for. On alot of remodeling jobs I have to cross finished lawns, concrete & blacktop drives. With the old axle any type of turn would peal up turff or leave black marks on concrete & black top. I now have the new axle and all the above conditions are gone. I can now pay attention to my work and not worry about how & where I am going to turn. I don't know what you saw in the pictures but this axle is not a whacky, rigged poor design. It is a neat setup. The tractor with the new axle turns great with the loader off or on with the bucket full of concrete. What is it that you think will not hold up on the new axle. Other than the steering linkage setup the axle case looks the same as the old axle. The only difference might be the caster & camber are different. If you are happy with your tractor than you don't have a problem. I did have a problem & my Dealer & John Deere took care of it & in the process earned a lot of respect from me. Chris ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-08          14584

Chris: I stand corrected. How did they change the pump mechanism. I generally do all my own work, would JD furnish the parts. My dealer has some mechanics but they've asked me to fix things for them. Can you make claim directly to the company or do you go through the dealer. I emailed Deere a memo but got no response. Wonder if it would be better to just trade for one of the new setups....I hate to monkey with a tractor. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
turfman
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 97 midwest
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-08          14585

As for what happens to the old axles, my dealer is just hauling them out back to a pile for the salvage yard. Seems like a real waste. The other comment that was made about the dealers warranty time allotment, 5 hrs. but it will probably take about 8 by what my mechanic says. Deere is usually not too generous for those retro-fits. The parts are supposedly coming from the assembly line for the new tractors so don't hold your breath til you get yours. I spoke with a golf course superintendent the other day that purchased a 4400hst for mowing his rough. He was very disappointed with the turning performance. He had used a 1070 for this prior and that is a heavy duty tractor meant for loader backhoe operations and mowing. He had never had so much damage, (makes me wonder how old the guy he sent out to mow was, you know just keep turning,they told me to mow the back 9). Anyway, Deere marketed this tractor at the Golf Course Superintendents show for the golf market. So I think they knew what they were doing, they just didn't care until we did. And now that the competition knows and is after it I think we can all sit down and relax and mow and turn on our new axles. thats my 2 cents

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chris in IN
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-08          14587

Chuck the dealer took care of everything. From what I understand the only original parts from the steering system were the front wheels & the steering wheel. Chris ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-08          14607

went by the dealer today and viewed the tractors on the lot. The 4100 has the radius rod and push pull cylinder. The 420 on up has the rack piston type arrangement, also the 5000 series has the rack piston type steering..... ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Brent Lowe
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-09          14618

I stopped by the local Deere dealer today. I looked at an 855, 870, and 970. All of them have the Ackerman steering geometry, as they should for limited scrub on the outer wheel during the turn. The dealer had aprroximately fifteen 4000 series tractors out front, none had the new axle. I then spied a 4400 parked on the side of the building. I took a look and it had the new axle. It was even parked with the front wheels turned to full lock, almost as if on purpose to show the improved steering geometry. The left front wheel, which was the outer wheel, had much less steer angle than the right front wheel. As for Chuck not being impressed by the design, well then you must be the guy who can tear up an anvil in a sand pile. The solid tie rod looked to be over 1" in diameter and was behind (protected by) the front axle. If Deere treated this problem the way an automotive company would treat a highly publicized engineering screw-up, the fix is most likely way over engineered. Just my 2 cents. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-09          14619

Men, I stand corrected, never tore up any anvils but maybe the new setup is for me. Will see my dealer this week. Do they replace just the housing or the gears or as one assembly. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
MichaelSnyder
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 0
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-10          14635

OMO, I think we've beat the JD 4000 steering/scuffing problem to death. But for the 4100 owner's who are also experiencing scuff problems....yet are being told the 4100 doesn't have problems...here's the deal.
Most likely driven by economic reasons, the 4100's front end Toe-in is factory adjusted by the amount of bend put into the solid none adjustable tie rod. If the rod managed to escape the factory without enough bend.. The result of this yields excessive toe-in. Mine for example has about 2" (I can visually see the amount of toe-in). Normal Spec is about 1/4"-3/8". The fix for this is a new tie-rod. End of story.. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-15          14808

As you go through life there are times you make mistakes and replying out of ignorance to the scuffing issue was one of them for me. Seeing is believing and I have first hand knowledge. First as agreed there is a big, big design problem. How do I know. A personal friend of mine liked my 4400 and now has gone out and purchased one. I told him in a real hard turn he could see some turfing and or scuffing. I thought this might be normal for those type tires.
Anyway I was dead, dead, wrong and I pride myself on knowing something about machinery. Have restored many tractors and done a lot of machine work. Anyway my friend of getting his tractor and I thought about the scuffing. I mentioned it to the dealer this week and suggested he get the new front end for my friend. Anyway I've just came from his house and his tractor was delivered. I was dressing up the front guard adding some wire mess. His tractor had the new front end. Naturally I asked if I could test it. NO COMPARISON. I tried to get it to scuff and couldn't. You don't even have to think about it. Now I'm going back to the dealer with some real ammunition. I can't rightfully say that he knew of the problem, but I'm going to challenge the issue. Thanks you you guys, I've learned something. I apologize for ruffling or over questioning any of the inquiries. Appreciate the help. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Jack in IL
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-15          14811

Chuck, it takes a lot of courage to publically acknowledge that your early posts were made without fully understanding the situation. Like the famous John Henry, you are a B I G, B I G Man!!!. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-15          14813

Thanks for the comment. One other thing I would like to know is the change in the pump. I don't think my dealer has worked on these units and I am interested in knowing about the pump change over. I might change the front end myself, see how it goes on, can anyone share information about the other changes. In changing this I want to be sure it's right. Spoke to the dealer today and he is contacting the rep. Monday. I do a lot of business with them and feel somewhat confident we can work the matter out. Will keep a post. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-17          14875

spoke to axle representative and they have been making it around 6 weeks, my axle was produced in November. He advise that the pump has to be increased in size. Also I have pics of the new design and the pump and have driven the tractor, it is like daylight and dark. They used the Ackerman design and the turning angles are precise. I called my dealer Saturday and he said he would call today but I didn't hear from him. I also called Deere representative and the record started about the belly mower. I use a 6' landpride purchased from the dealer. I think being coy about this problem is a problem for the folks selling the units. Thanks to this board I'm working on my problem. In checking the warranty it appears this situation might be a defect in design. The customer rep was eager to advise that it is an upgrade. I guess this might keep them from getting the whole tractor back. Of course the problem was sold to the dealer and he sold it to me. I suppose the golf courses could have been the main spearhead. Individual customers were left on their own. My serial # is 4049 and I know the change occurred some 300+ units later as a friend has the new unit. There is a memo on the Dana site touting the new design of the front end back in March, 1999 it touts the integral hydraulic power steering cylinder. The model of the axle is 025S on the 4200-4400 and the 035S on the 4500-4600 models. I've got some pics and will be glad to share information. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Mike Brown
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-18          14881

Chuck; I have a 4300 series with a severe scuffing problem. I called my dealerlast week to see what I needed to do.He saod he would call me back that afternoon, but I didnt hear from him until I called him back yesterday. H e claims he hasn't heard of any complaints of scuffing problems, and that he even checked his DTAC sources and didnt find any info.I explained the problem to him and even told hom he needed to look at the message board. He said he was going to talk to his rep when he came in. Where do I go from here? Any suggestions?. I would also like to see those pictures of the new axle to show my dealer.Thanks for any help you might have, Mike Brown, Ga. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-04-18          14905

heard from my dealer today and he advised that the factory is shipping the front end and pump, necessary parts. I restore tractors and do major work and advised him I would take care of installing. I've got a good dealer and have spent a lot of money with him. Have helped him out in the past. I believe this is a factory situation as he said he had to talk to them wasn't a recall type situation. The axle is supported by 8 bolts and the new setup bolts in same place with the line hook up in the same area. He said it was coming as an assembly. Guess it is off the assy line. Dana supplies all these units. Will keep posts as progress continues. May have in a few days. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-05-23          16567

was by the dealer today and the unit has not arrived. He said Deere had it on shipment. I bought a front end loader. Feel like I will receive the unit, but I must be competing with the production line. Told dealer I would install and they only allow 5 hours and I want it done right. Have obtained a service manual and don't want a rush job. Will keep a post. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-06-08          17018

dealer called today and the new front end came in. I had decided to install my self and after 5 hours I have the console ready to reinstall, will finish tommorrow night. The axle came as complete assy with the new pump and steering control. Also there was step by step instructions. Also a new line was included as the pump is forward about 1/2 inch. Dealer said there was 170 other requests made at the factory. Well pleased with my dealer and front end is nifty. Hardest part is the control valve as it is close, also you have to disconnet the throttle. Dash assy is easy to remove. Don't think I'll have any problems.... ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-06-09          17082

installed the new front, replaced the pump and control valve. Am doing it right, takes about 10 hours making sure that everything is ok. Unit works like a champ. Price on invoice to dealer for shipping values was $2497.72. My dealer was super. I believe one reason dealers are relucant to take these on is time to install is a loss. I left the front on the lower part of pallet. dropped the old one, slid pallet under tractor and lower tractor. directions are easy, steering valve was little tight to work with and new line little work to line up, but not bad. new unit is green, I guess because it is different from the assy line units. Nothing but praise for my dealer. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-06-11          17104

looks like the scuffing board has died. Since I was one that took some convincing by the other respondants I am now convinced. I have just completely finished the job. Put the console back together and installed the new loader. Definitely I see the drawback in the change over is time. To do this job right it is probably a good days work and there is no way to hurry or you'll mess something up. The console is tegious to remove and instal and one thing for sure is you have to remove the throttle lever. I wound up having to put some new plunger on the reverser lever, damaged the one there, no big deal and I set them a little tigher to get rid of the slop. Anyway hooray for the guys that convinced me to check this out, the new front is super. I'll recheck my pump bolts and brackets in a day or so for tightness. Thanks guys. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 0
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-06-11          17106

Chuck, I read your description of the front end change with great interest. Even though I don't have the front end problem on my tractors, it has been a lot of fun to see various people's approaches to getting the problem solved. I believe that I would do the same thing that you did....that is that I would want the pieces and then do the installation myself. Do it yourself and it is done right.
The days when a mechanic could do something with care and craftsmanship and still pay the bills are long gone. As you point out, it would take an unusual effort to be able to complete the job in the time that the factory expects. There is no extra time allowed for problems- and typically a mechanic will only get paid some fixed proportion of this flat rate. As I think about it, this is probably the same philosophy that created the problems in the first place. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Al
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-06-11          17107

Chuck, thanks for the detailed synopsis on your experiences in installing your new axle. Would like to know if you used a hoist to raise and lower your tractor onto the axle or how you managed. Best of luck. Al ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Chuck Westerfield
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-06-11          17117

Al, I used square wood blocks, raised the front to releave pressure on tire, placed blocks. After removing the wheels, dropped the front out. Then took the new crate down to the base, slid the new unit under tractor, used handy man jack, removed the block, put my floor jack back under then I could lower into place. The unit came complete with the bolsters, new bolts, etc. You then have to adjust the center pin adjuster. I could probably do another one with a little less time, I just didn't get into rush. Works like a charm. Dealer gave me couple gallons of oil. My dealer is a super guy. He said there were 170 requests for front now. Front end is entirely different than the old set up. It is much like the one I had on my 870. The control value is 100 instead of 80 on the old one. Whatever that means. I took the old assy back to the dealer as he might be able to sell some parts off it. If you want any more information please advise. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
heartlake
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-07-23          18197

I have got the front tire scrub big time on my 4500 when operating in 2wd. I also found that both tierod ends developed over .100inch slop in 48hrs running time. Deere replaced the tierod ends with no problem, however I am concerned that this sideloading is causing undue damage to the front end (steering) components. I am asking deere for the new axle design. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
TROCK
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-07-23          18198

I have not responded for quite a few months on JPLAN. I finally received my axle in June, after waiting for 4 months. The axle does look exactly the same, with the exception of the tie rod/steering ram setup. They also installed the updated 3rd scv lever assembly, which works GREAT, I might add! (I think they reused my old knob, because it still falls off all the time) They also installed some package for the hydro to address my concern of the pedal being too "touchy". (when I drove across my lawn when it was wet from rain or dew, it was very difficult to stop the tractor without the tires coming to a screeching halt, even if I was barely moving. If I were mowing wet ground going forwards, then had to stop to go backwards, it was VERY jumpy and would leave skid marks when it came to the stop and when the tractor moved again, reverse or forward) I was really anxious to drive it again, to see what the front tires would do when I was mowing the grass. I immediately noted that it seemed to turn tighter to the right than to the left. I measured the toe-in, and it was more than 1". I also noted that turning to the right would allow the right side spindle to contact the spindle stop, but a left turn would allow me to insert my middle finger between the axle and the spindle stop. I called the dealer and they fixed it the very next day. Now, I can even mow in 4x4 and make a pretty sharp turn without the infamous scuffing :) I don't think this new axle turns as sharp as the old one, but as long as I can turn on the ends of the lawn without making plow furrows, I am happy!
I do want to add a comment to heartlake. I noticed excess play in both tie rod ends long before I even heard of the scuffing concern. It got to be a real handfull when driving road speed and needing to correct the steering all the time.
As a last question, I want to know how current 4300 users' diff lock is working. After they replaced my rear end washers for the recall last year, my pedal never stays down properly. If I am starting to spin, I have to almost stand on my pedal to get the lock to engage. It used to be just a heel-tap to push it down. It feels like the lock pin is too large for the hole it is engaging and keeps bouncing by each hole as the wheels are turning. (at least this is how I can interpret this to everyone here)
My warranty is going to expire in 4 months. Gettin' a little nervous........ ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Shawn McCorkle
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-07-24          18223

When you say you have the updated 3rd SCV Lever, are you talking about the round knob that engages the mid-PTO, or the lever mounted on the right fender that lowers and raising an implement such as a mid-mount mower? I'm sending my 4200 in for scads of warranty work tomorrow and am having trouble with both. The round knob has broken off twice while engaging my mower, and the lever that raises and lowers the mower hangs in the up position and does not automatically center at neutral. If there's a fix for either one, I'd sure like to know about it. Thanks in advance for your help! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



John Deere Scuffing

View my Photos
Mike S.
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2000-07-24          18242

Shawn--the 3rd SCV is the lever that is mounted on the right fender with which you raise and lower the mower deck. Mine didn't center automatically, so I took it apart and loosened the bolt slightly on which the lever moves. There is an upgrade for it, but am unaware of what it does until the parts come in for my dealer to upgrade mine along with other warranty issues that are still pending. The black knob comes off the 3rd SCV lever if grabbed and there is no JD fix for that, although I am considering pinning it. Mike S. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


  Go Top Go Top

Share This
Share This







Member Login