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The Deere 4000 wait

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Steve
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2000-01-10          11821

I ordered a JD 4300 hydro with 430 loader about 3 months ago. Dealer said it would take about 2 1/2 months to arrive. I thought the wait time was supposed to be going down! Wondering what kind of wait times others have been experiencing recently. Hoping this thing shows up before it really starts snowing!

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JJT
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2000-01-10          11824

I am about to order a JD4400. I was quoted a maximum of 60 days wait, assuming another tractor at another dealer couldn't be found. I haven't yet placed my order so I don't know yet how good this data is. Two of the three dealers I spoke with didn't seem to have a problem plugging into the dealer network to get me a tractor in less than 60 days. Again, we'll see how it goes when I place the order. ....

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CHRIS
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2000-01-10          11829

Dont know what part of the country your in but around the houston area dealers
have plenty of 4200's,4300's,4400's. I was given a price today on a 4200 4x4
hst turf tires and dual srv for loader of $13900.00. also a 420 loader for $2500.00. Does this sound fair? p.s. Gave up on blue, test drove one and had a funny smell that the others didnt seem to have. No smoke though.
....

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Don in Oregon
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2000-01-10          11831

Steve, J.D. is making a real effort to get orders out quicker. The 42-4600 HYDRO tractors are currently the slowest in coming due to huge demand. Gear models are easier to get. J.D. is currently turning out twice as many 4000 series tractors than one year ago, and approx. FOUR times as many as three years ago. Demand seems to be keeping ahead of production no matter how they try to anticipate market share growth. Even though it's no fun waiting, these figures should give you an idea of how great the product is. Your patience will be rewarded!
Don, OR. Dlr. ....

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cewhiteman
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2000-01-11          11847

You guys waiting on Deeres should check out the
Kubota l-10 Series tractors. Far superior and available now.
Deere NOT worth waiting for and you will probably pay more
for it. Don't be blinded by the green paint. I am
a dealer and have can sell both brands. ....

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By the Brook Farm
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2000-01-11          11851

far superior my ass..n/m ....

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MichaelSnyder
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2000-01-11          11854

Steve,
This thread proves even dealers are people, and people have OPINIONS. From personal experience I can tell you my search started with a preference to Orange, mostly from hearing things about them through the grapevine. I can tell you that talk is sometimes cheap... Assuming you've done your homework, I doubt you'll have regrets. I think Kubota is an excellent compact, and if JD hadn't
offered something more appealing, we probably would have gone Orange.. Obviously for some, Kub is the best thing since sliced bread, for us..it seemed like yesterdays bread given to the birds. Tough skin, but not real tasty.
Hence I'm still glad I DIDN'T buy one, and went with JD. OH..by the way..the wait WAS worth it and Deere ended up about $1000 cheaper than Kubota. Not that price would have swayed my decision, but its always nice to save a buck and still get what you want. ....

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Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2000-01-11          11856

Like you say, Michael, everyone has an opinion. I did the exact opposite of what you did. I started out with a STRONG preference for green, and wound up buying Orange, and sure am glad I did! ....

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JJT
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2000-01-11          11864

Ok cewhiteman, I haven't made my purchase yet but I've looked at both. Tell me why I should buy the Kubota 3pt backhoe over the Deere 47/48 hoe? My Kubota dealer couldn't do it so I'm giving you a shot. My mind is open, my wallet is about to open...open my eyes. ....

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Roger L.
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2000-01-12          11874

I own a 3pt backhoe - an older ARPS model. Although mine is adequate, I will buy a frame mount next time. The last time we discussed this I got the feeling that most - if not all - owners of 3pt mounted backhoes have the same opinion. ....

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Jeff in NY
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2000-01-12          11877

I'm echoing jt's request of cewhiteman: after studying Kubota, JD, NH, Massey, and Cub Cadet, I ended up favoring the JD 4300/4400 because of the loader and backhoe designs and performance. This includes position of controls, raw breakout force specs, design features such as quik-tach on loader and hydraulic boom swing on backhoe, and especially ease/safety of attachment/detachment. Also, only the JD and NH had a backhoe frame attachment that still allowed use of a belly mower without removal of the backhoe subframe. The loader specs of the JD are much higher (20-35%) than any of its competition in similar class tractors; so much higher that I don't think it is just hot air. Maybe I'm missing something here, can someone educate me before I buy the JD? PS - like Mike Snyder, Kubota was my first choice (2710, then 3410), but they just didn't measure up on the loader and backhoe IMO. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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2000-01-12          11878

Jeff,
I think you may be a bit mislead on the breakout forces. I don't know if this is hearsay or fact but apparantly the 2 manu'f list these breakpoints at different locations. Thus not a true apples to apples comparison. Your mention to JD controls/ergonomics and implement design WAS a huge deciding factor for us. Putting things like breakout forces aside, the comparable Kubota model(s) just didn't offer the ease of versatility JD offered, and offered well. To some, this isn't important because their needs or budget don't require or allow it. Secondly, for example..taking advice from someone who "MIGHT" remove the loader once a year, does little good if your tasks require this once or twice a week. Remember...everything including life is all about Opportunity cost, you give something up, to gain something else. How much of each you are willing to lose or gain is something only you can decide.. ....

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MChalkley
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2000-01-12          11879

Roger, I think you're right on the frame vs. 3-pt mount backhoes. I've got the Bradco 609, and the main reason I bought it is because it has a very heavy duty subframe and you don't have to remove any of the 3-pt hitch linkage to install it. But the reports of tractors being broken in half by 3-pt mounted ones are not exaggerated.

Everybody else, as for the JD vs. Kubota loader specs issue, they are measured from different points, so you can't compare the numbers. However, the JD 4600 loader does have more lift capacity than the K 4310 one, just not as much more as the 'specs' indicate. That's why, IMO, K is coming out with the 4610. That's also why I replaced the 2" cylinders on my L4310HST with 2 1/2" ones. That gave me more lift capacity than any of the JD or K stock models.

Other than that, I'm not getting into the K vs. JD issue. They're both very good tractors that will outlast most of their owners. What could you want more than that? To like it, obviously. And it's clear that some people aren't happy with the JD, some don't like the K, and I'm sure some don't like either one. So, by all means, get one you like. And recognize that the next person is going to do the same, hopefully. Would anybody here really want somebody else to buy something they wouldn't be happy with? If so, why would you listen to them in the first place? ....

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Jeff in NY
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2000-01-12          11882

Michael and Mark, thanks for your words of wisdom and enlightenment on the loader breakout forces being measured at different points (I'm embarassed that I missed that myself). Also, my memory is getting terrible lately - I now think it was the JD and the MF whose backhoe frame attachment didn't interfere with a belly mower, not JD and NH as I originally posted. I'll have to check my notes this weekend. A related question: the JD 4xxx backhoe frame attachment does not appear to be a conventional "subframe" that extends much of the length of the tractor; my recollection is that it attaches to the rear axle housing and I can't recall how much, if any, added support extends forward of the rear axle. This raises the spector of "broken-in-half" tractors in my mind, especially with a model 48 backhoe. Can anybody out there who knows more about this particular setup please comment on this concern? ....

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Jeff in NY
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2000-01-12          11883

BTW, Steve and jt, regarding the original subject of this post before I helped send it off into loader and backhoe space: JD dealers here in northern NY seem to have a fair supply of 4400 HST's the last few weeks. I was surprised to see that you guys are looking at significant waits. ....

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Roger L.
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2000-01-12          11884

Jeff, those specs that you are looking at will only take you so far....Most tractors/loaders/backhoes of roughly the same size have roughly the same specs. Marketing departments make free with the numbers, but mechanical priciples dictate the real values....and these are going to be so close that I doubt that you will be able to tell the difference.
The advantage to the frame mount backhoe is that it is stable and doesn't flop around on the tractor. If you use a 3pt and a frame mount for about 5 minutes each you will see what I mean. Most of the 3pt types do have some sort of hard-fastening device....but it is a pain to set up, loosens quickly when using the hoe, and isn't as stable as the frame in the first place. A hoe can put enormous loads on a tractor. You can break one even with a frame mount. Just go try them and see what I mean. Swing the boom sideways with a load in the bucket and see what happens. You make this move a lot when working them.
Yes, I'll be keeping my 3pt hoe until a good frame mount drops in my lap. It isn't that I don't like it, it is just that I know more now.
On which tractor to buy, frankly I'd buy the one that appeals to me with a dealer that I like. If I was buying new today I'd consider Massey along with the Kubota and Deere. You will be happy with any of them.

....

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By the Brook Farm
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2000-01-12          11891

I actually have a 48 hoe.......mounted on a JD4600. This bad boy pulls 8" pine stumps as fast as I can move the tractor. I think the tractors that break in half are the ones advertised in the back of Mother Earth News for 8 grand "direct from importer". If you are getting a 48 hoe get the biggest, heaviest, most powerful compact you can mount that sucker to..a JD4600. Weight is important, and it helps to have about 6,000lbs of tractor under you. Looked at the L-35 Kubota, nice machine, the others in the Kubota line were too small, light duty. If you want to mow lawns, or nibble for an hour on a 16" green maple stump get one of the smaller compacts. Best advice I got while shopping for a tractor was to step up a size or two. No regrets. Cost a few dollars more up front, but the resale is stronger on the other end so the net is pretty much the same. Check out the Advantage Series full size Utility tractors by JD, 5105, nice machine for not much $$..have fun. ....

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JJT
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 93 Upstate NY, USA
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2000-01-12          11895

Thanks to all regarding backhoe input. The backhoe is an important part of my tractor purchase and frankly it was the Kubota backhoe system that turned me away from their product. Kubota makes great tractors, have a devoted group of owners, and when it comes to compacts I just figured no one else even compared. However, their backhoe (3pt) seems a bit behind the times when put up against the JD 47/48 hoes. Whatever team of people put the JD4000 backhoe system together seemed to be doing their homework in striking a balance between the hardcore dedicated hoe and the versatility of a homeowner/removable backhoe. That said, I fully realize that many contributors to this site have years of tractoring experience, and some are dealers (cewhiteman). Not me, I've never owned a compact tractor, so I remain humble and my opinion open to the real experts out there...all you owners. I havn't bought yet. I am impressionable to influence. My chalange remains to cewhiteman, whom implies wisdom with both JD and Kubota. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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2000-01-13          11900

JT,
Be very careful when listening to the various people/dealers you are bound to run across.. Not to repeat myself, but everyone has an opinion..ESPECIALLY dealers, who have a financial stake in their opinion. Amazing how the K dealer says his units the best for such and such reasons.. And the next dealer did the same. From a buying standpoint, things came together for us when I finally found the dealer who actually praised the competition for various things, and told me how his brand compared..better or worse. Truth be known to the color blind man. Remember,"true" wisdom is readily seen, "false" wisdom has to be stated. ....

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Roger L.
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2000-01-13          11901

jt, surely someone makes a frame mount loader for the Kubota. I think it is more probable that your particular dealer just doesn't carry it. A lot of the aftermarket implements are top quality -better than the factory's own efforts. Some are even painted to match the tractor! If you like Kubotas perhaps you can ask the dealer to find you a frame mount hoe. ....

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MChalkley
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2000-01-13          11905

The Bradco backhoe is a full frame mount unit that can fit a lot of different tractors by ordering the right subframe kit. It's an industrial grade unit and so is priced higher than the budget backhoes. I've got their 609 model on my L4310HST and have been very happy with it. The L4310 & JD4600 size tractors are probably the smallest you should consider putting this unit on, though. It's used on bigger tractors and skid steers, too - it's got over 50% more power than the JD48 and 1.6' more reach, if that gives you any idea. But it works fine on my L4310, even using the tractor's hydraulics, just a little slow. If you need it to work fast (not a good idea, anyway, on this size tractor) you can put a PTO pump on it. The subframe, made of 3/8" plate, reinforced to 1/2" at all contact points, wraps completely around the rear axle on each side and extends all the way forward to the loader subframe and bolts to it, giving you a frame that extends the full length of the tractor. Plus, as I've said before, you can leave all the tractors 3-pt hitch components on when using the backhoe, at least on the Kubota. I assume it's the same for the JD. ....

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JJT
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2000-01-13          11906

Roger, you my be right about my Kubota dealer not steering me toward an aftermarket product, and I admit that I hadn't considered it 'till I read your message. When I expressed a certain lack of enthusiasm for the KB 3pt my dealer steered me to another Kubota tractor (I forget the model number) that was more "industrial grade", complete with a frame mount backhoe. He did concede that backhoe removal would be somewhat unpleasant, but doable. Both the Boomer and JD tractors have turnkey frame mounted hoes and the JD system uses the hydraulics to lift the hoe on and off the tractor...I was quite impressed by the demonstration. Mark, I read your respnonse with equal interest and you make some good and valid points, however my budget and needs keep me at a self-imposed ceiling of about 35hp. My intended backhoe use is rather modest in scope. My plan is to call in the Hitachi trackhoe w/ thumb one more time for my remaining big job. Hot dog what a machine that is, poetry in motion. If I was Bill Gates... ....

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MChalkley
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2000-01-13          11908

jt, I must be brain-dead, but it didn't occur to me before that Bradco also makes smaller units. I just did as I usually do - went whole hog and got the biggest baddest one that would fit. Check out the link I attached to see some of them and how the specs compare to the Kubota BL4690. One of those might be in the right range for you. I know what you mean about those trackhoes, they're slick. I put a thumb on my Bradco and really like the added versatility. It sure makes it easy to move stumps, logs, rocks, etc. ....


Link:   Bradco Backhoe Specs

 
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cewhiteman
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2000-01-13          11916

lOOK AT THE GREAT BEND (GB) LAODER LINE. 260 OR 280 MODELS ....

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cewhiteman
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2000-01-13          11918

WOODS MAKES A NICE BACHOE AND FRAME KITS AVAILABLE FOR
POULAR TRACTORS. THE FRAME KIT MAKES IT SIMILAR TO JD 8
BACKHOE SETUP. WE SELL THE MOST OF THE 7500 BUT THE 9000
IS SOLD TO COMMERCIAL ACCOUNTS. BRADCO OFFERS THE MOST
BACKHOE OF ALL BUT MOST PEOPLE DONT NEED THAT MUCH BACKHOE.
....

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cewhiteman
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2000-01-13          11919

KUBOTA OR YANMAR also known as (JOHN DEERE)
I really didn't mean to ruffle anyones feathers ,but I do
get tired of people thinking JD is better just because it
says JOHN DEERE on it. The thing I insist on before I sell
sell a tractor is that they drive them. My favorite obviously
is Kubota. What I like is the quiet, smooth running engine
that I can still talk to someone while standing next to it.
They do not have the diesel knock that the others have. Go
to a rental store or Industrial equipment dealer ie BOBCAT
and ask them what engines the find in most manufacturers
products that are powered by someone elses engine and why.
I bet they will say KUBOTA not YANMAR. Try it.
Next thing I like is the quiet and smooth hydrostat transmission.
You don't hear the usual growl that other hydrstatic equipment
usually have including JD 4400 series. The hydro pedal has
a servo merchanism in that makes the pedal much easier to operate.
It takes 7.7 lbs to operate the pedal on L series kubotas
compared to 30.8 pounds on JD 4300, Try it. This also helps with
smooth starting and stopping and vibration on the pedal.
Kubota also introdced the 4610 last fall and La852 loader
that out specs. JD 460, available in March-april 2000. Worth
the wait, Right. ....

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By the Brook Farm
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2000-01-13          11921

Get this guy a spell check..n/m ....

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JJT
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2000-01-13          11931

Hey cewhiteman, you bring up a good point that I had forgoten about regarding the hydro pedal on the JD4000...is it me or is that cotton pickin' thing really hard to push. JD4000 owners, do you share this experience. I found this to be one of my very few complaints with this tractor. The dealer was of no help when I sqawked it. And yeah, I prefer the Kubota 4cyl over the yanmar offered in the Boomer/Deere tractrs. But, in the end when the money's on the table I guess you just got to give a little here to get a little there. Unless of course your Bill Gates...just buy one of each. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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2000-01-14          11935

Now, If only we could Merge the Kub and JD compact division.. Maybe they would use a bit of each to develope an industrial tough unit which is very convenient and user friendly at the same time. CEWhiteman..Thank you for better explaination of your preferences and why you developed them. Sorry, but your first post screamed the old "Ford vs. Chevy" war... ....

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JJT
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2000-01-14          11937

Mark, thanks for the Bradco info. I only just scanned it as time permits. What's it like to remove and install the backhoe...an important consideration for me. On another note, I have been called away on a business trip on short notice and of unknown duration. This sometimes happens in my line of work and I'll be away from the "boards" for a while. Once again, thanks to all for lots of good stuff. ....

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Chris in IN
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2000-01-14          11966

JT I own a John Deere 4400 & the hydro pedal is harder to push but this was one of the reasons I purchased it over the Kubota. The pedat on the Kubota is very easy to push that is bad when using it on rough ground. When test driving the Kubota 3710 on dealers rough lot the tractor started bouncing, that makes your foot start bouncing, that made it hard to control the speed of the tractor. It would be even worse in the feild or woods. I have not had this problem with the 4400. Another thing I did not like on the Kubota L10's that I do not think I have seen on this board is that the tie rods are in front of the front axle. Chris ....

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Dwight Mckinney
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2000-01-29          12336

The dealers around here (eastern NC) have lots of 4000 series tractors in stock...and my 4600 was CHEAPER than a K. 4310.

Dwight M. ....

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