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R4 s On Turf - low or hi pressure

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92gt5ohRed
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 10 Southeast PA
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2005-06-11          112241

This is really going to sound stupid, but since you already read the subject you get the idea.

I have a 4110 and R4's. Since I have abougt 3 acres of grass to mow, I am adding a 60" MMM now. I hear the R4's are not that bad on grass, but do I run them hard or soft? Someone has to know what their optimal pressure is for grass use. I tend to run them more hard for FEL and BH work. Thoughts? Thanks!




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R4 s On Turf - low or hi pressure

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-06-11          112242

The optimal pressure is that which allows the tread to lie perfectly flat. Look at the tread from the rear while parked on concrete and adjust pressure till it's flat. Too much air and the edges will curl up, too little and the center will. ....

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R4 s On Turf - low or hi pressure

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jsebert
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5 Wilmington OH
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2005-06-12          112252

That is very good advise to air the tires till the tread is is full contact with a level surface such as concrete. However the pressure needs to be adjusted every time that you put on other implements or take an implement off. I am in the tire business and I have farmers call every week inquiring about tire pressure on tractors large and small. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-06-12          112263

On a 4110 with R-4's you can't air them down.

You can take all the air out and the tire is so stiff that it still appear to be inflated..... until you drive it and the tire comes off the rim. Ask me how I know.

The average guy with a garage full of tools will NOT be able to put that tire back on its bead. It takes some serious tire store, big boy, high pressure wazoo stuff to make that work.

I would not carry less than 15 psi in this tire on a small tractor..... but it will look and act the same as if it had 40 pounds in it.
....

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Justus
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 179 Justus, Pa.
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2005-06-12          112265

"high pressure wazoo stuff to make that work."

Thanks Mark, I've always wondered what the technical terminology was for that equipment. Steve ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-06-12          112267

I run the tire pressure specified in the owner's/operator's manual. As Mark has mentioned already; it is just NOT worth the risk of having a tire come off the bead or rim especially a filled tire. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-06-12          112272

Steve.... well, now ya know!

Mark

(What do you call that air tank nozzle thingy that blows a big elephant fart into the tire to get it on the bead??)
....

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92gt5ohRed
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 10 Southeast PA
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2005-06-12          112278

Wow, that is service, so many replies so quick! I can't thank you enough. I will take a look at the tire sidewall and the manual and start there with pressure. I suppose a few laps around the yard will tell me if they are digging or spinning. This forum is so cool, thanks again! ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-06-12          112280

Rankin: The big fart thing we call a "Cheatah" like the big cat; might be the brand name too, not sure.

The low pressure thing--I have noticed that the ride quality will be very bouncy with low pressure, especially in the rears.

A trick I use to mount equipment tires is a few shots of starting fluid with an air line attached to the tire stem (it whips up the ether vapor inside the tire)---stand back, light a match quickly and toss it near the bead (where the air/ether mixture is escaping). Be prepared for a loud but controlled explosion! Haven't had a tire yet this didn't work on. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2005-06-13          112293

WE do often add tubes into tires when filling for customers depending on their work to keep the sidewalls from seperating from the rim. I definitly don't recommend earthworks either bead sealer as I've seen the results of just air bringing the bead over the rim and lifting people from ten feet to 20 to the ceiling of the building! Even caught a garden tractor rear tire and rim for the same reason after it hit the fellow blowing it up and bounced off the 16' ceiling hitting a wall and still being five foot in the air thirty foot away as I ran out of my office to see what happened! No thanks to that one although I do know it has worked. The problem with R-4's is the load they are meant to carry which is normally for a single rear to carry the total weight of your compact tractor! ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-06-13          112306

True. I have seen the same tires Deere put on my 1800 pound tractor mounted on a 9000 pound skid steer.

I recently went back to my R-4 front tires because the turfs I was running were starting look very bulgy under big FEL loads. But instead of the R-4 rears I found a load range C, M&S radial that was the same circumference as the R-4.

R-4's make my back unhappy. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-06-13          112310

"... that air tank nozzle thingy that blows a big elephant fart into the tire... "

Mark, you've obviously never sat in the front row at the circus....

I would hazard to guess that the quick-start (ether) idea is safer than blowing that into a tire....

Best of luck. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-06-13          112317

ART: Using ether--when done correctly and carefully---is for mounting a nearly-impossible tire (not for sealing it). And I should have stated that it should only be for emergencies or as a last resort. When I have done it, the resulting pressure in the tire is less than a few PSI, so to say the tire could be blown off the rim just isn't the case, or cause someone to be blown 30' ain't gonna happen. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-06-13          112319

Seems it would be easier and safer to use an inflatable bead expander. Did that not work or did you not have one? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-06-13          112322

I just use a nylon webbing style binder strap.

I put it right around the center of the tread and wind it up tight, it compresses the center of the tread enough to stop most, if not all of the air from escaping, unti lthe tire engages the bead and starts to inflate.

Best of luck. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-06-13          112336

I tried the strap thing on the R-4's but they are just too stiff. I have successfully used that technique on ordinary tires. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-06-13          112337

The local big-truck shop mounted them on the rims but not air them up. They were new skid steer tires with extremely stiff side walls and tread (they were only 7.0 x 15 but very hard), plus the outside temp where I was working was approx. 10 degrees in Jan. Even a 5,000 lb. 2" ratchet strap barely compressed the tread and didn't even spread the side walls. And I have had/heard of experiences with split rims like on my F-600 dump truck where it exploded under normal circumstances (parked) and the spilt rim ring blew off and crushed the battery (the battery sits unprotected in a box next to the frame just ahead of the front axle and next to the front right tire) ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-06-13          112340

I "knew" two guys that used either to seat the beads all the time. They how ever do not do it any more. The first one lost half his head when a wheel that was not welded properly blew apart. The second took tire shrapnel to the chest. Today they are worm food. ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2005-06-14          112358

Gotta say it! Ether is the most dangerous and stupid thing you can try. Do people do it? YES! Do they get away with it? Yes! Most times.

If I step on a toe here I apoligize. My Comment is from experience not someone told me.

I have seen, years ago, ether used outside and the tire guy hide on the back side of the truck when he did it.

I have seen 2 people killed ( you wanna see a mess?) from split rims and the damage to a tire shop and a tire from ether. I have also seen several tire cages that have been destroyed over the years from ether and split rims.

More tire guys and inexperienced amatures have been maimed or killed, according to the tire industry, by using ether than any other thing, except maybe split rims. I do not know of any local tire shops that will permit ether to be on their trucks, even in the winter for starting.

Tires will blow off beads. Rims will break. People in the area will get hurt or killed.

I manage a fleet of 21 tractor trailers and tri axle dumps also 7 very large wheel loaders and scads of various smaller equipment involved in quarry and road construction. The tire guys always can seat a bead sometimes the have to call for more help and experience but they do it with out danger to themselves or others.

Our company had a worker killed when he used a cutting torch near a barrel of stored windshied washer fluid, and a open bung. Windshied washer fluid in tires is wrong. If it is pumped into a barrel to store while a tire is being repaired and a careless match, cigerette or flame is near it, some one could get seriously hurt.

If you are gonna ballast the wheels use a tube, use calcium or beet juice. If you are gonna run them soft use screws like the fuel drag cars. ....

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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2005-06-16          112479

I've taken my JD4700's rear R4's down to 5 psi for a different reason -- Because the treads wouldn't completely set down on the ground, the tractor tended to slide on slopes while mowing with a rear mower, breaking loose rearend first. So, I tried low pressure to get more tread edge bite. However, I got negligible improvement (the sidewalls are too stiff), so went back to spec pressure. The only serious answer is to switch to radial R4's, which sit down on the entire tread nice. Only issue is $$$; Goodyear has some nice tread designs. too bad JD doesn't offer radials as optional.
jim ....

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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2005-06-16          112480

I've taken my JD4700's rear R4's down to 5 psi for a different reason -- Because the treads wouldn't completely set down on the ground, the tractor tended to slide on slopes while mowing with a rear mower, breaking loose rearend first. So, I tried low pressure to get more tread edge bite. However, I got negligible improvement (the sidewalls are too stiff), so went back to spec pressure. The only serious answer is to switch to radial R4's, which sit down on the entire tread nice. Only issue is $$$; Goodyear has some nice tread designs. too bad JD doesn't offer radials as optional.
jim ....

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