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tweigold
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 8 Minnesota
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2005-05-26          111574

I am a newbie, so please forgive my missue of the traditional JD terminology.

I am looking to purchase my first tractor and I have no real idea which to choose, hopefully this posting will help me.

I have 6 acres (2 high, 3 low, 1 wet). I have a number (30+) of trees to cut and move, open lowland to till up for deer food plots. I am want a front loader and 3pt tiller with the tractor for this year, and thinking about (if possible) using a log splitter (next yr purchase).

I have numerous large landscaping projects such as moving black dirt, sand, gravel, woodchips, retaining wall blocks and large boulders and landscaping rocks.

I beleive 4wd is necessary. Hydrostatic sounds good.

No MMM, for now (next year). I am thinking R4 tires. No clue about which horsepower (2210 has 23...sounds better then 4x10's series but....). The 4115 has 24 but would the 4110 do just fine?

Ok there you have my chores.......can anyone help me focus in or do I need to look at 4210 or 4310? I would like to get out the door around $17,000 +- $2000. Also, do JD deal or are the prices set by JD corporation?

btw, I had a quick quote from one local JD dealer for the 4110 tractor alone for $14,000.....gut check on his price...high or low?
Thank you for any help.
tweigold


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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2005-05-26          111577

Yes 4wh. drive is necessary, and R-4's are a good choice for the landscaping plus they seldom do any damage on turf. A hydro drive is nice, but far from necesary, I've used 12/12 reversers for years and got along just fine. From the sound of the type work you want to do I think you'd be happier with a 4300/4310, that gets you into the midframe size tractor and would be a lot safer with a loader, plus it will handle the # 48 backhoe just fine. I doubt that any new 4310's are available, but nothing wrong with a nice used one. I haven't kept up on used prices, but you probably could get in the door for not much more than the 4110. Good luck. Frank. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2005-05-26          111578

Sorry, I did forget one of your questions. Far as I know Deere dealers are free to work out whatever price the both of you can live with. Frank. ....

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havoctec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 56 Minnesota
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2005-05-27          111591

I agree that 4WD is a must. Because it sounds like you want to do some pretty serious loadr work I would also agree with getting the larger fram tractor. The 4310 is a 1000lbs heavier than the 4115. That will make a huge difference in your ability to do loader work.

I do disagree with hardwood on the transmision though. I would not even consider buying a tractor of this size without hydrostatic. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-05-27          111592

4110 4-Wheel Drive Tractor Suggested List Price...$12859.00

assuming a bare bones tractor, $14K is way above suggested list!!

Find the 4110 on the Deere web site and click on "build your 4110" the prices are there. After you get the total shoot for a 10 percent discount off the package. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-05-27          111598

Before saying anything about which size tractor: How big are the trees you are cutting (i.e trunk diameter and length). How much dirt, etc. are you trying to move and how much at a time.

My guess is you could use a bigger tractor like a 4310/4410 (medium frame tractor) but don't have enough green in your budget! If your tree trunks are like 2' diameter and trying to pull out some 16' length boards, I'd recommend a large frame tractor. Likewise, large boulders (2 1/2'-3' diameter rock weighs about 1,000 to 1,500 lbs. or more depending upon density and type of rock) are difficult to lift and move requiring a substantial loader.

Hardwood has a good suggestion of looking at something used. The hydro is really nice but that is about $2,500.00/$3,000.00 or so out of your budget. Depends how much this stuff is worth to you. A nice used 4510 with 12/12 PowrReverser in 4WD version sure would haul, lift and push some good sized stuff! ....

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DennoAce
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 105 usa
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2005-05-28          111620

I have a 4110 gear with 14 acres and I love it. My opinion is that it all comes down to how much you want to spend, and how fast you NEED to get things done. I settled on the 4110 because I got a very good deal on it new, and I am in no rush to do things around the house, if anything I "try" to make it a fun hobby.

That being said, if you are willing to spend more money, you will almost never ever regret going bigger. If I had wanted to spend more, I certainly would have gotten a 42 or 4310.

ps The engine in the 2210 is the same as 4110, just rated at different RPM thus the diff. HP and unless you are mowing lawns a lot with it, a 2210 does not compare to a 4110 for the money IMO.
....

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renz164
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1 SE Connecticut
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2005-05-28          111624

Re: pricing the 4110
Yes, I'd use the 'Build Your' feature on the Deere website to get full list price, but as far as dealer discount goes,that seems to vary regionally and dealer-to-dealer from 10-20%. In my case, my new 4120 package with FEL and BH was discounted 14%. Setup charges, etc. will also vary among dealers. I'd definately include the quality and reputation of the dealer in my decision. What with 0% financing through JD, paying slightly more to buy from an excellent dealer won't be that visible in your pocketbook, but the benefits of a top-notch dealer will surely be visible. ....

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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 676
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2005-06-01          111826

I have a 4115 and a 46 Backhoe, I am absolutely amazed at the work I have done. I have moved boulders and buried the bigger ones, I have cleared rocks and dirt and dug trenches etc. Great Tractor for that.
I priced a 3 pt Log Splitter and found out I would be paying up around 2000 for it, reason? You need at least 12 gpm flow to operate them, the 4115 only has 7.3. So I am buying a stand alone one.
I have a front loaded and with my BH attached I am pretty steady and able to do some damage to some awesome big piles of dirt of rock. I also own some wet areas and grow big skeeters, I have been belly hung already and thank God for a nearby tree and a portable 6000 pound winch.
My vote is for the 4115 ....

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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 676
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2005-06-01          111831

I forgot to mention,
I got the JD 4115 with FEL, R4s, 46 BH, 46 Tiler, 6 ft Frontier Scraper blade, folding ROPS, tech nabual, cover and loaded tires, for a total sum of $24100.
Needless to say, I felt I got a Great deal. If you subtract the 46 BH you would be at around $18500 and if you subtract the tiler, you would be in the high 17s. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2005-06-01          111833

I think DRankin is happy with the Speeco 3-point log splitter on his 4115. Maybe he'll chime in here with specifics. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-06-02          111856

The flow numbers are all about the speed of the ram. The hydraulic pressure is the gauge of the splitting power.

That said, I am quite satisfied with my speeco three point. Working alone, I can split a cord of wood in about 75 minutes. It is considerably faster with a helper.

I really don't spend a lot of time waiting for the ram, and have no complaints about the speed or power with the 4115 running at PTO RPM. ....

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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 676
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2005-06-02          111862

I went to Timberwolfcorp.com who happen to build them, here in Rutland, Vermont and when I spoke to them, they said that thiers require a minium of 11 gpm to operate otherwise I would have to purchase one with the reserve Hydralic Tank and pump and the price was $2000, I decided for $1200 I could get a Horizontal/verticle self-contained with a 5 hp Honda engine and tow it behind the JD.
When it comes to Maples, Ash, Butternut, Oak, Cherry etc, I want some hydralic pressure at the wedge.

....

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tw-20ford
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 20 yankton
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2005-06-02          111872

we run 29hp boomer which works fine for those jobs so i'd maybe get a 4210.i would also suggest the r4's. i would also say thats a low prise.
....

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DennoAce
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 105 usa
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2005-06-03          111924

To stick up for the 4110:

My 4110 only lacks a few HP and a smaller frame (which is actually handy for manuvering) to be the same exact tractor including hydraulic flow,loader capacity, etc. and I paid $11,500 with folding ROPS and 410 loader. Not sure if a 4115 is worth the extra money ($4,000 more by the deere site), but maybe there is something I don't know about.

:)
....

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DennoAce
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 105 usa
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2005-06-03          111925

ps The only other difference I know about is the engine is direct injection which I admit can be kinda nice. However my indirect 4110 starts in about 1 second (literally) with only 2 seconds of glow plug, even in -20f weather (trust me, I tried it this winter up here in Maine). I have many years experience with diesels, and have rarely seen one start so well, direct or indirect. It's no big deal. And your injectors and pump have to be much more "in shape" for a direct diesel to run properly..indirects are more forgiving IMO.

Just stickin' up for my little 4110 is all....Im sure the 4115 is one fine rig, too! :)
....

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dklopfenstein
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 125 Southern Indiana
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2005-06-03          111932

My recommendation is a medium-frame tractor for what you are doing. You can find very nice slightly used ones for about the same price as a new small framed one. That being said, I purchased a 4410 with 87 hours on it through a dealer last year for $15,200. It came with hydro, 4x4 (standard on 4410s), folding ROPS, Power Beyond, and a 72"mmm (turfs also...my primary mower, does a great job). Even though the tractor alone weighs 2900 pounds, I have found it to be somewhat light at times while digging with the 300cx loader...but I don't have a ballast box yet...small "bites." I personally wouldn't have been satisfied with smaller frame since using the larger one. The medium framed tractors have many more features plus the capabilities to do much more work...I tried out both prior to my purchase and have been very pleased with my decision. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-06-06          111998

"they said that theirs require a minimum of 11 gpm to operate otherwise I would have to purchase one with the reserve Hydraulic Tank and pump"

Nonsense. The GPM is about ram speed, not the splitting power. My splitter is rated for a 2500 psi max and that just about what my 4115 generates.

Here is what Speeco says about their splitter:

LS400197 is a 3-point hitch log splitter. Fits tractor categories 1 and 2. Splitting force and cycle time depend upon tractor hydraulic pressure. Tractor hydraulic system should be capable of delivering 6 to 25 gpm of oil at 1500 to 2500 psi for adequate splitting force and speed.

They all work the same! It's a dog simple valve, hydraulic cylinder and wedge. ....


Link:   

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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 676
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2005-06-06          112004

DR

I am NOT arguing with you. My JD dealer even told me what Timberwolf told me. I called Timberwolf, for they are only 20 miles from me and they said that the minium requirements for the splitter to function properly was 11 gpm. When I told them what I had, they knew I had 7.3 GPM flow and 2400 PSI. They said It would not work and when they got done telling me the cost of what would work, I decided for half the price, I would buy a self-contained unti that would work in Horizontal of verticle. That way I could leave my BH on the tractor and use it to lift the log for cutting or placing on skids for further cutting. I went to your website and read the write up and I went to timberwolfcorp.com and read theirs, again. THey say it will work on any tractor with greater than 16 hp. Yet when I called them and talked to them, I was told different.
I would like at least 25 ton and not 17 ton, we have some wicked Hard wood here and need some force to split it. Unless you want to subsitute speed. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-06-06          112007

I guess I came across a bit strong..... I know that you are not picking a fight.... and I certainly am not.

I just think you are being fed a line of bull to up the prices. If you consider your loader.... or your back hoe...they both deliver full power once you hit a minimum RPM, they just run slower then they do at full engine speed.

So it will be with any log splitter. 2500 psi seems to be about the max for most commonly operated implements. Once that pressure is reached the power generated is at maximum.

Check some of the archives where folks were dissatisfied with the lifting power of their JD 790's and smaller New Hollands. Nowhere do you read that they needed to increase the flow. They all did modifications to increase the pressure, and therefore the lifting power.

Ask just one question of the dealer or the manufacturer: What is the maximum pressure your free standing unit will develop? I bet good money that they don't exceed the pressure your tractor generates.

You are, of course, free to choose what will work best for you. I just want to make sure you are making an informed decision. ....

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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 676
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2005-06-07          112014

I didn't know Jack Poop about splitters (Tractor Mount) until I did some web searching and then called the Dealer, I found it great to find a Manufacturer so close to my home.
Your logic makes perfect sense to me and I do run my BH at around 1500 rpm to keep it slow and anything over that is way too fast and senistive.
If what you say is true, then why does the 4210 have 12 gpm flow and the 4115 has 7.4. I note also that the 4210 has almost 300 psi less than the 4115 and yet has a greater lifting capacity.
You made perfect sense, but I guess I DON'T understand everything I know. I am confused now.
Each of the splitters I saw advertised seem to think that GPM is important enough to state in the initial blurps, 20 gpm etc.
Would not the GPM mean how fast the cylinders fill? I know that cylinder diameter is a factor as well, and then how much pressure is behind the flow would also be important. I guess using a pail of water would be an example, if I had a 1/2 inch hose and 20 psi of pressure would it fill faster than a 1 inch hose and 17 gpm? I wouldn't think so, need some Calculus help here.
The hose represents the cylinder diameter and the pail would represent the job.
I would like to understand this better, for I haven't bought my splitter yet, cause what I wanted, I was talked out of and what I am getting is secondary.
Thanks ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-06-07          112025

Maybe some of our engineering friends like Murf can jump in here on the pressure vs. volume questions.

There certainly has to be a balance here. By BX was a puny lifter. It ran about the same pressure as 4210 you mentioned, but it had small hydraulic cylinders.

So it seems that bigger hydraulic cylinders can do more with less pressure, but only to a certain point. Hook a 4210 size pump to a BX cylinder and it would move lightning quick but exert no more power if the pressure is the same.

If I am getting that wrong, I am sure one of my more educated friends here will/should set me straight.

I guess my point can be summed up thusly: The 4115 hydraulic system creates all the pressure a 4x24 cylinder and it's feed hoses can safely handle. The 4115 also generates sufficient flow in terms of GPM to split a cord of wood an hour(given two workers).

Certainly there are faster units, but for me the fact that I might save 10 minutes per cord for didn't wash considering the $1000 larger price tag of a faster outfit.

It might have turned my head if I was producing firewood commercially........... ....

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chevytruck13
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 19 Bismarck ND
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2005-06-07          112035

I agree. The amount of work a hydraulic cylinder can do is proportional to the size of the cylinder as well as the pressure applied to the cylinder. If you are limited on pressure you get a larger cylinder to apply more force. However it is like pullies. If you have a larger cylinder and the same flow the cylinder will travel slower. Because the tractor can only do a certiain amount of WORK (HP) but with torque multiplications (Larger cylinder or lower gear ratio) you can apply more force. The splitter company is probably telling you you need a certain flow because they have standard specs for the products. They don't want a bunch of custormers complainint the ram runs to slow on the tractor so they say this the the minimum period. If you are happy with a slower running ram then there is not problem. Just ask the splitter company about this. ....

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tweigold
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 8 Minnesota
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2005-06-08          112100

Hello everyone and thank you so far for your help. I thought I was ready to start 'dealing' when I decided on a 4210. When I approached my local dealer (and according to JD new into) the 4210 is not longer. It has been replaced by a new series (3210 I think) which has more hp and hydro flow. These new changes and cost have put me over my limit.

I am now back to looking more closely at the 4115. No dealer nearby seems too anxious to find me a 4210, their eager to push the latest. Now back to the 4115.....when I made further inquiries I found that this fall (maybe late summer) the 4115 is being replaced.

Is this typical of JD to keep changing series/models? Seems like the ink is barely dried and their changing again.

My search continues......I am now thinking about waiting for the 4115 replacement out of frustration in trying to make an informed decision.

Any other suggestions?
Thanks ....

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wingwiper
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 676
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2005-06-11          112219

I have been gone for several days and after talking to Drankin and reading Chevy truck, I am going to go and revisit Timberwolf and see what is realy going on.
Thanks for the input, I need to get the splitter soon if my wood is to be dry by Winter.
....

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