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 | HuckMeat
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 121 Colorado 
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2004-01-14 73924
I'm building a house on 50 acres, and I've got 2000+ feet of water line and utility trenching to do. This would be y first tractor, and I'm looking at the 4610 w/ R4, the FEL, and a backhoe. My dealer is quoting ~ 33k in a "package deal" which doesn't seem too great. Not sure I really need a 4610 anyway.
How do I negotiate with a tractor dealer (I like the dealership, but am a tractor neophyte and looking for good support and advise). I'm not afraid to pay a good dealer for service and support, and so the guy can make a living. But I don't want to get rolled MSRP just because he thinks I'm loaded or whatnot. Lord knows I'm not.
Any advise on what a fair price, delivered to my lot, (10 minutes away) is?
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 | grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 677 central Maine 
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2004-01-14 73928
How much are you going to be using the backhoe after the intial project is done. Maybe renting a hoe could save some
money ? ....
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee 
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2004-01-14 73934
These are reasonable prices and you can do better than these in some cases. At least they should give you a ballpark idea and a range to have in mind as well as a walk away price.
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Link: click here
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-01-14 73935
Backhoe pricing. ....
Link: click here
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-01-14 73936
FEL pricing. ....
Link: click here
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| HuckMeat
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 121 Colorado
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2004-01-14 73954
Thanks for the input guys! I'm debating on the backhoe - Once I get the house built, I'll have landscaping and a barn to build (footings, water and power to the barn, etc). As it is, I've got 2k feet of water line (still trying to figure out what it's going to take to make that work) and another 500' of other utility trenching.
If I'm going to do all this digging with the backhoe, the 4610 seems reasonable. If not, any other recommended model for fel pasture cleaning, snow blower work, and fence posthole drilling? Perhaps the 4610 is a bit much.
My dealer has a 4410 on the lot, but said it's only about $2500 less. Doesn't quite make sense to me, but it's probably got a different option set. ....
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-01-14 73969
Some random thoughts. I don't know for sure you are in this situation, but you don't want to buy too large. Some people buy big for an initial workload (construction, etc) and when the job is done they find their machine is too large for ongoing work (mowing, etc) and/or they can't store it indoors. Then they trade down and lose money in the process. You could buy a 4310/4410 and use the savings to either rent a trackhoe or hire out the trenching work. A dedicated trackhoe would do the work faster, too.
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| kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 360 Shepherdstown, WV
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2004-01-14 73971
I agree with buying a smaller machine and renting to do the initial construction stuff. My brother & his wife rented a trencher for their electric line and that thing worked great. When they were ready to backfill, they used the FEL on her uncle's TC45 and it worked great. By using the trencher, they didn't have the huge trench from a hoe which meant less of a dip when it settles. I would love to have a hoe as a toy, but can't justify the cost. ....
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| Brian Marchessault
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2004-01-14 73995
I recently purchased a 4710 e-hydro w/FEL heavy duty bucket rear remote, R 4s loaded, 3 hooks welded to bucket. for total 23600.00 ....
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| Brian Marchessault
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2004-01-14 73996
I recently purchased a 4710 e-hydro w/FEL heavy duty bucket rear remote, R 4s loaded, 3 hooks welded to bucket. for total 23600.00 ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-01-14 74000
I'd do some thought as to what you might want to do with the acreage that you might want to maintain. Maybe you might want two tractors. ....
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| HuckMeat
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 121 Colorado
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2004-01-14 74004
It will be horse pasture... Water starts wars in this part of the country, so dryland pasture doesn't support many animals.
Based off the good advice here, and trying various tractors at my dealers, I'm thinking either the 4610 or the L series... The L series is a fair bit of coin cheaper, and I do like the dealer. I will be doing a lot of gravel road maintenance, snow removal, once a year brush hogging (things don't grow fast) and trying to install thousands of feet of fence. My corrals are easy to access, so I'm not so worried about the size of the tractor, although I do want hydro. I'm thinking I'll get a loader, and perhaps the post hole digger to start. Other suggestions on implements for grading (both construction and the road)., A Rear blade, or box blade?
Also, for an idea of why I am/was? considering a backhoe - Installing a waterline or trenched/buried electrical service costs between $9 and $10/per foot. With 200 feet of trench for my electrical service, another 150 for propane, and 2000 feet of waterline, my excavator is going to be rich!
However, after thinking things through (thanks to some good advice here!), I can rent an cat-hoe or other excavator for a lot less, although I will probably rent it several times after I finish construction (barn utilities, landscaping, etc. I've been trying to maintain my current 1 1/2 acres for so long by hand, I think I was over-reacting. :) (Plus, subsidizing my toys in the name of building the house was a good idea!).
Thanks again guys!
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 | harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY 
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2004-01-14 74020
Another good use down the road is burying critters. Justify it on the building and use it when you want down the road. It will never lose you money, especially if you buy Green, Blue or Orange. Buy a smaller one for the small chores. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-01-15 74029
On the L-series a BH90 backhoe won't hurt the tractor and it would give you a lot of options later. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-01-15 74039
Buy the backhoe with the tractor package. Tell yourself if you don't use it at least once a year that you will sell it.
You will find so many uses for it it will surprise you.
If I read correctly, you have 2000 feet of trenching to do and it is $10 a foot to hire it out. My calculator says that is $20,000.00
A $7K backhoe would look pretty darn good to me.
I tend to look at costs of things on a monthly basis.
I need a TLB a couple days every month and the rental cost for that is $600 by the time you factor in fuel and delivery charges.
It makes it real easy to justify a $500 per month tractor payment. ....
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 | AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144 
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2004-01-15 74054
I agree with Mark on the backhoe. I bought the backhoe for my tractor when I bought it as a package. I don't regret the backhoe one bit.
When I want to use the backhoe to do a hour worth of work, it is there ready. I can also break projects up into several segments if I don't have a rental backhoe sitting there costing money.
I bought a 45 HP tractor to have something large enough to do heavy FEL work. The backhoe that I selected matched the tractor after the initial size decision was made. I generally buy something that will fill my needs 90% - 95% of the time and hire out the other. ....
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| bimini
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2004-03-30 81645
i had the dealer down to nuts on a 4610 loaded 4wd for 16,9-- didnt get to buy it and now want to know whats a good price ona 4710-- thats what i really wanted --ThaNKS ....
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| lamarbur
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 93 Ma/Ct state area
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2004-03-31 81674
Huckmeat,
I have only 19 acres and refuse to be without a backhoe. There are a zillion things that can be done with them. 20,000 to lay 2G feet, wouldn't take me long to order my own hoe.. I have a 11 ft hoe on my machine. Most people don't want or need that size. I would seriously look at the Kubota 4630 with BH90 hoe. NIce all around machine, especially with 50 acres. Hoe will do whatever you need it to. The 4630 can have a nice factory cab for those cold snowy days. ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2004-03-31 81683
I recently went to look at a Deere 4710 and 4610. I was quoted MSRP and the dealer stated that they would not move from these prices. AS two JD dealers in the area have recently gone out of business, he has little JD competition so I am sure he can get his prices. I am not sure that he will stay in business though with comparable tractors being sold at reasonable prices. ....
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