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 | Norman Grinnell
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2001-03-09 25285
I took delivery on a jd 4600 about 10 days ago. I financed it through John Deere credit.I was quoted a price of 21,600 and signed the papers and took delivery on the 28th of Feb. Yesterday the dealer called and said there was a problem with the price I paidand said we would have to get together again and resign new papers for a price of22,160. An increase of 560. He said there was a clerical error and he couldn't let me have it at the lower price. I told him that the sale was final and would not pay any more. Can you believe this?
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| Terry Weivoda
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2001-03-09 25287
This is one of those cases where you might save a few bucks because you have the signed agreement. However, you may have to weigh the benefit of saving $560 over the treatment you may get when you need service. Do you have the original price quote in writing? If so, then the original price quote should be adhered to regardless of whether a mistake was made. I found a mistake several years ago when a JD dealer wrote the contract incorrectly resulting in a mistake in my favor of nearly $800. My keen eye cost me $800 but I was treated like a king when service was required. I just think if there was an honest mistake that the parties should revert back to the original agreement. If you had discovered a mistake after you signed the agreement (and had a written or oral agreement to the contrary) and you paid more than you should then you should be able to enforce the original agreement. If however, this is just a case of where he failed to calculate his profit margin correctly and quoted you the price at $560 less then he must honor the agreement. ....
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| Norman Grinnell
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2001-03-09 25293
Terry, this is a case that he gave me a price quote of 21,600 and 10 days after
the papers were signed he said that after seeing his invoice he needed 560 more.
The contract states the sale at 21600 as quoted. The mistake was not in the contract. It was in his profit margen after looking at his invoice. So, I don't feel obligated to pay the additional amount of 560 even though it may reflect in
future service. I never agreed to 22160 as it was not discused until he found his markup to be unsatifactory in his opinion. I do feel bad but if service is unsatifactory I will go to a different dealer. I just wonder if this is just a con on his part. Maybe it works with most customers but not with me. I paid the quoted price as agreed. ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2001-03-09 25299
Norman, what an interesting story! I admit that I have a fascination for this sort of problem that involves philosophy and ethics as well as mechanical things. And thanks for asking for opinions.....I won't be reluctant to give one (as if I ever were!)
Here is the way I see it....If the mistake were simply a mistake in arithmetic,- say in addition when totaling up the bill - then I would say that you still owe the money even if it the mistaken totals were in a signed contract. I do think that it is the dealer's obligation to prove to your satisfaction that the mistake was an honest one. And also your obligation to be willing to accept reasonable proof.
Though from my understanding of what you say, it does sound like the dealers position is more complex than this. He is not claiming that the arithmetic was wrong, but simply that his profit was not all that he expected. In that case the same argument would apply, and he has the same obligation to convince you..... but he now has to provide you with substantial information about his business expenses, overhead, and profit margin. in fact, more information than he may be willing to provide. And even if he does so...and by doing so does convince you that his margin is lower than usual......then his argument that you should suffer so that he can gain does seem rather weak.
Then there is the interesting point that you bring up at the end. Yes, I agree that you have some obligation to the rest of society to insure that this is not simply a case of reprehensible business ethics on his part. I'd tread softly in that regard, though. Frankly, I would regard that sort of allegation as an unforgiveable insult - as would most folks I reckon. This would go double for a dealer in farm implements who is probably used to dealing with rural values.
My last thought is the philosophical one.....that this is a case of $560 dollars sure having a lot of purchasing power - I'm curious just what you are going to decide to buy with it.
....
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| Terry Weivoda
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2001-03-10 25306
Norman, I agree with you completely. If the dealer just wants more money now it would no different than you going to him ten days later and saying you want to spend less. I suspect his position would be a little different and that he would insist upon the contract price. The point in my previous post only concerned the question of there was just an arithmetic error. I agree. In your case the signed contract is the price you agreed upon. He is bound by it. If his attitude with respect to servicing your tractor changes then you can remind him of the many JD dealers looking for business. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2001-03-10 25310
Roger set down the issues very well. As far as I know, a contract isn't absolute. It's a way of formally structuring an arrangement, and it doesn't commit any party to slavery. A contract doesn't oblige a party to do anything. It simply sets down obligations from which damages can be determined if an obligation isn't met. Contracts always can be broken and then it becomes a legal question of what actual damage was done to whom. Trouble is that if it's actually a case of a clerical error, then the dealer may view insistence on the original terms as damaging to him. Damages are usually two-edged swords. An argument that the deal wasn't quite as good as expected may not be viewed as very damaging in the legal sense. Anyway, $560 doesn't go far to sort out things through a legal process. However, the amount could be much higher if either side refuses the sale (and either side does have the ability if they're certain they were damaged) Far better, I think, to negotiate a solution. If it's a case of a clerical error, rather than a shoddy practice, then a good relationship with a nearby dealer could be worth much more over the years than $560, or whatever might be negotiated. ....
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 | lsheaffer
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 1082 Northern Illinois 
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2001-03-10 25311
I don't think you should pay the difference & I think the dealer is being out of line for asking for it. For Petes sake, A contract was signed & the tractor was delivered. It's a done deal. The dealer made a mistake & he may not make anything on this deal, but if $560 is going to break him he better get out of business. ....
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| Jay Tedrow
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2001-03-10 25320
And if you traded in a tractor that ends up needing a clutch etc. should he come back and ask for a little more help. I think not. ....
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| Greg franklin
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2001-03-11 25349
This is indeed an interesting situation. These guys here have hit on points that ring with me: A)Terry's-"the treatment you may get when you need service", B)Also Terry's-"no different than going to him ten days later and saying you want to spend less", C) Roger's-"his augument that you should suffer so that he can gain" and D)Tom's-"Far better, I think to negotiate a solution". I once got sized up as an opportunity and had a Harley repair person swap his bad part for my good repairable part. I slipped in behind him early one morning and cornered him in his shop. After his initial surprise we quickly exchanged our issues and then he went into a screaming escalating tirade about me making him out to be a liar. Sensing this could get worse, I made the statement "Now I know your position" and left. Later that day he called and was very apologetic (and guilty) and "since customers matter" he would buy me a completely new part at no cost. The point?..Hold a discussion and end the first meeting in non-committal neutral way giving him time to digest your position. I don't recommend the sneak attach method I used but in that case it was warranted. All this being said it would be HARD for me to come out of my pocket with 560 more "after the contract could buy an implement" dollars. Assuming this is solely a case of him misjudging his profit, he should eat it. ....
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| Alan L. Lewis
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2001-03-11 25361
No way you should pay the extra money. That type of behavior is reprehensible. A deal is a deal.
In 1997 I bought a new 4 X 4 Suburban. There was a promotional deal going for 5.9% interest. I made a deal for $33,000 which was below dealer invoice (of course at that price the dealer still made a profit).
A couple of days later the finance manager called me and said that they had messed up on the deal, that actually there was no 5.9% promotion on the Suburban - only on the Blazer. He asked if I would come down and sign a new contract for $800 LESS (making the price $32,200) with 8.15% financing, so that the payments would be the same for then whole 60 months. Of course if I pay it off early I would owe less.
They didn't try to get out of their deal. This was Friendly Chevrolet in Dallas. ....
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| J. Dubbs
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2001-03-11 25365
The solution in this case is a simple one. If the mistake is related to addition or subtraction of the numbers on the contract the extra $560 should be paid. But, as some have said, if the error is simply that the sales rep did not make enough on the deal the dealer should eat the loss. I can guarantee everyone that when a consumer pays, sometimes thousands, over invoice the dealer isn't calling offering a refund. Instead, the rep sits in the back of the dealership laughing at the consumer for not doing their homework and subequently paying too much money. If this is a profit margin situation then chalk one up for the consumer. ....
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| Norman Grinnell
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2001-03-11 25367
I just wanted to update everyone on my problem. The dealer called me back Sat
and appologized for the problem. He asked me if I could come in Monday and redo
the signing of the contract as he had notified John Deere credit to cancel the sale and he couldn't get it reversed, but assured me the price and terms of the new contract would be the same as the original. Even though I don't think the original could be canceled without my consent, I told him I would come in tomorrow to resign. You can be sure Ill compare this new one with the original
to be sure there are no changes. I just hope service won't suffer from this.
Thanks to all
Norm ....
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| JJT
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 93 Upstate NY, USA
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2001-03-12 25411
Thanks for posting the update, Norman. Looking forward to the final chapter and hope it has a happy ending.
JT ....
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| Jim Reichard
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2001-03-13 25441
Norman I had a simular thing happen to me when I took delivery of my 790. We had the dollars and cents ,Intrest rate, and loan terms in writing from J.D. credit and the dealer. When I was ready to sign the paper work I noticed the intrest rate and terms different. So I told the delivery guy that this information is incorrect, so I called the dealer and explained that the contract was incorrect and I had copys of my paperwork to stand behind it! He said that john deere would not finance it that way. So I called john deere credit and they said that the original agreement was fine and could not understand why my dealer was trying to modify the contract but they would call me back with an answer. In the mean time I called the dealer back and asked him if they had any intentions of telling me about these changes or was he hoping I wasn't going to read it! he said that they had notified me of the changes and then he became rude!!and hug up on me!! They never called to notify me abuot that!!About 10 min. later John Deere calls me back and tells me that my terms are still in effect! and that the reason that the dealer had changed is that the dealer had under sold the tractor and with the new terms would make up for his losses and it was not right for him to change the contract. So I still received the tractor under my terms and resigned the contract. The dealer seemed imbarresed about the hole thing and I still have a good relationship with them(I help them to sell 3 other tractors and I still buy things from them) and I didn't have to pay extra. ....
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