HELP
ibngriz
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14 Missouri |
2004-03-27 81366
I have a Farm Pro 2425 that only has 15 hours on it. I was useing the loader today and all of the sudden it started to miss and black smoke came out of the stack and a real hard knock was coming from the engine. I got it back to the barn and it is going to stay there until I can get my dealer on the phone. I have never had this engine up to 20000 rpms and the oil is fine. Could this be a fuel problem? I am still running off of the fuel that the dealer put in it when I bought it. I have added nothing to it.I am really concerned because I really like this little tractor but at least I have a warrenty.I hope this is not a preview of thins to come. I have almost talked my father -in-law into buying one but he doesn't know about this problem.Any ideas? Thanks Tim
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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 689 Western,Pa. |
2004-03-28 81367
Replace the fuel with some fresh fuel and conditioner, run it for a while and see if it clears up. ....
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ibngriz
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14 Missouri |
2004-03-28 81368
Thanks I will try it first thing in the morning. ....
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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY Pics |
2004-03-28 81372
I WOULD NOT RUN IT UNTIL IT HAS HAD A COMPRESSION CHECK!
Fuel does not cause your type of a problem "ALL OF A SUDDEN". Mechanical things cause all of a sudden stuff.
Hopefully something easy like a Injector nozzle went to lunch, possibily dropped valve and no dammage to piston.
Good Luck Harvey ....
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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley |
2004-03-28 81375
Hope it's OK this morning. Diesels make black smoke from overheating and too little air (which is really the same thing) and from various mechanical problems.
I'd check the air cleaner and for obstructions in the intake manifold. There's a chance that heavy work on a new engine caused over-heating but a warning light or gauge should have provided warning.
Obstructions and fuel are about the only things that would be easy to check without a repair manual and some wrenching experience. I'd be careful running it hoping things will cure itself. There are a few mechanical explanations such as compression loss from broken rings where it wouldn't do the engine any good to run it.
If it starts and operates normally over-heating is a good guess. The problem may be present only the break-in, and the only lasting problem could be glazed cylinder walls that might prevent the rings from properly seating. Such an engine likely would enjoy a normal service life but burn a little oil. If it were over-heating, it'd be good to figure out why the temp light or gauge didn't provide warning. ....
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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley |
2004-03-28 81377
If it seems like an over-heating problem there are a few other things I forgot to mention. Coolant level, rad cap, clogged rad fins, fan belt tightness covers most of the possibilities.
The suddenness of the problem and the loud knock may indicate a mechanical problem and again I wouldn't want to run the engine much if it still knocks and misses. Another possibility if the smoke is gray rather than black is fuel starvation. Mine smokes, misses and knocks if I don't get the lines completely bled after an fuel filter change (old style pumps aren't self-bleeding). The filter also is a good candidate for fuel starvation problems. ....
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edward_dugas
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 24 ohio |
2004-03-28 81382
Nice that it is still under warranty, let dealer fix. On occasion The clearance between a valve rocker and the valve push rod is excessive and the rod comes out from under the rocker and in turn the valve does not open or close. This in turn will cause a knocking noise and smoke. Once the engine is stopped it will be hard to start again. Fix is to take off valve cover, reinsert push rod under rocker, adjust clearance, put valve cover back on. Have fun. ....
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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee Pics |
2004-03-28 81387
Let the dealer do their thing. If it happened spontaneiously as you described; could be a possibility that it blew the head gasket. (this is not an uncommon event with these engines) Water or contamination in the fuel is a possibility but not likely as the filter should catch most if not all of it unless it was totally overwhelmed. Have you pulled the fuel filter and checked the catch bowl for contamination? Check that first if the dealer cannot get to you right away. ....
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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa |
2004-03-28 81388
I would'nt even start the engine, let the dealer come out, winch it on the truck, take it to his shop for repair. This kind of situation is where you'll know for sure how good of dealer you've chosen. That's kind of a sick feeling when something brand new poops out right at the git go, but better it happen now than a few hours after the waranty runs out. Best of luck, Frank. ....
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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 689 Western,Pa. |
2004-03-28 81392
It still sounds to me like bad fuel/filter and/or sticking injector. ....
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ibngriz
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14 Missouri |
2004-03-28 81404
Well I talked to my dealer this morning. He said to bring it in or he would come and get it but if he does it is 1.50 per mile.So I loaded it up in the rain this morning and took it to him. He told me that his mechanic will look at it tomorrow and if they couldn,t fix it to my satifaction he will give me a new tractor.I don't think I could ask for much more from him.I have also decided to buy the 2 year warranty as soon as this gets straightend out. Thanks for all the info and advice. I will let you all know how it works out.
Tim ....
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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa |
2004-03-28 81407
Tim; sounds like you made an excellent choice for a dealer. Frank. ....
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ibngriz
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14 Missouri |
2004-03-28 81409
I told him about this forum and he wants me to give him the link to it. He wants all the information he can get on the Jinmas so he can do right by his customers. His dealer tells him that out of all his dealers (25) he is the only one that has "any" problems with the Jinmas. I told him to take a look at this site and he will see that all of them will have some sort of small to medium problems from time to time.He has sold over 85 of these 2425 and have had only one besides mine with problems.The other one the man who bought it put gasoline in it (not the dealers fault). Thanks Tim ....
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chipuren
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 193 Arkansas |
2004-03-28 81434
I also sell Farm Pro and will say that we have had very good success with that particular tractor. The loose push rods have been reported on the 30 and 35HP Jinmas which is a totally different engine. I don't suppose you noticed if there was any loss of use of hydraulics? if you have a koyker loader, it may be a flow restriction caused by mixing the ball type check valve with the pin type. I have seen that happen a couple of times, this dead heads the pump puting enormous strain on the engine (smoke) and noise as the pump blows the seals or worse. It is likely something simple and I hope you or your dealer will report back so we all will know of another thing to check!
Best of Luck! ....
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ibngriz
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14 Missouri |
2004-03-28 81443
Chip,
Funny you should say that.It does have a Koyker loader. I was using the FEL at the time it started makeing the loud knocking. I did not loose use of the hydrolics but it did blow some fluid out of the tube on the fill cap behind the seat.I will call my dealer tomorrow and tell him about what you said.Thanks ....
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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley |
2004-03-29 81457
Always real good to bring specific experience to bear on a problem and it's good there's so much varied experience here to draw on.
It sounds like push rods as an explanation should be checked but it's not a strong candidate. Yes, the hydraulics is a good candidate and should be checked for sure.
The only thing I'd say is that I managed the same condition some years back when I bumped the 3ph into lift while the hitch was locked down for a 3ph hoe. The engine laboured under full throttle and made gray rather than black smoke. I wouldn't describe it as missing or knocking either but maybe my Ford engine behaves differently. I'd expect the system relief valve to save the pump--at least with my Ford setup. However, all bets are off if the relief valve is in the loader valve and the check valve is ahead of it. ....
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edward_dugas
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 24 ohio |
2004-03-29 81478
Just for sharing info: My dealer had a 20hp Jinma that broke a valve spring which left the valve not fully retracted into the head. In turn the valve did for a time bounce off of the piston on the top stroke until the valve bent. Once bent it caused the connecting rod to break. Luckely the rod did not go through the side of the block. These types of things do not happen often, but they do suggest that with noise shut down the tractor until you find out what is wrong. It is also interesting that the mfg. of loaders, knowing what tractor it is going on, do not put the correct hyd. connectors on the loader or at least have instructions for the installer to check to see if there is a match. A number of hyd. pumps have been damaged due to this lack of detail. Again my dealer ruined the seals on a pump due to the connector error. ....
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chipuren
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 193 Arkansas |
2004-03-30 81539
We only recently brought this to Koykers attention and my guess is they will either include ball type or go ahead and include two sets of connections, We have avoided the problem since discovering last fall by replacing the factory quick connects with the pin style and then using the factory take offs along with the factory connects on the next one saving the pin style for the following one and so on, matching each tractor.
It should be pointed out that many have been done mixing the two types and they have worked OK. I can't say why some work and some dont. ....
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ibngriz
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 14 Missouri |
2004-03-30 81629
Well Well, I got my tractor back tonight. My dealer is an idiot.He says nothing is wrong with it. I dont hear the noise but my FEL doesn't work correctly.It will go up and down, but it will not pick up the front end of the tractor. After you raise the bucket up and down a few times it will pick up the front end..The fluid is full. I was using the loader when I heard the noise the first time and it came from the side with the pump on it. ....
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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley |
2004-03-31 81670
Doesn't sound like a lot of satisfaction here and that's too bad. It's up to a dealer to support warranties but sometimes owners need to document problems for them.
A couple of things to check are: Is there a possibility that the bucket is flat when it won't pick up the front and angled down when it does? Some loader frames don't go low enough to lift the front when the bucket is flat.
Is the sound near the pump a buzzing or maybe like ball bearings rattling around? If so the pump could be cavitating and that could introduce air into the system.
If the lift is cycled (full-up and then full-down) with the valve held open for a few seconds, does the relief valve open? Open relief valves make a squeal. If the lift is spongy, does cycling it restore power?
There are a few things to check here and maybe we'll get into explanations if needed. ....
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chipuren
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 193 Arkansas |
2004-04-01 81786
TomG makes some good points. you might open the hydraulic dipstic (under/behind the seat) and see if the oil is foamy, a sign of air entering the system.
Something you may want to do if you have not done it (or your dealer) is to dump the chinese "hydraulic fluid" in favor of AW32 or R&O hydraulic oil, you can use 303 universal but it is not really neaded because the hydraulic oil is separate from the trans. This will improve overall hydraulic use, especially in the cold.
....
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