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 | kalpia
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 77 Extreme Western on the beautiful St. Croix River, WI 
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2005-12-04 120383
Hello to all again. I have a new question, nothing to tough I hope. Last winter when I turned my ignition key I could see the AMP guage go low and then slowly move to "0", indicating that the glow plugs were glowing and Aggie (2920 or 254) would start after about 20 seconds of this. This year the AMP guage doesn't do that. Since it's 8° out (WI winter wonderland) I haven't popped the hood and checked the fuses, would that be the first place to look or do you think the ignition switch could be bad? I can't believe that all 3 GP's went bad at the same time. Thanks and have a Merry Christmas to all.
Email-kalpia_AT_hotmail.com
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 | greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky 
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2005-12-04 120385
Do you mean it doesn't deflect at all with the key switch to the "H" position? Or that it just doesn't reflect less amps pulled as the glow plugs warm up?
If the former - and if all the other electrical circuits are working right - the wire between the key switch and glow plug buss bar may be disconnected. If the latter, that's normal. The colder the outside temp, the harder the glow plugs have to work - and therefore the longer it will take to see that needle move back to the right.
//greg// ....
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| corvetteguy
Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 49 PA
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2005-12-05 120402
The amp meter for the glow plug use is
supposed to start moving back to "0".
Mine seems to go half way discharge
and stay there... ....
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| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2005-12-05 120404
Honestly, I don't understand your wording. When you switch the key to "H", does the ammeter needle swing all the way to the left - then get stuck halfway when moring to the right? or won't it go past halfway when swinging to the left in the first place?
//greg// ....
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| kalpia
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 77 Extreme Western on the beautiful St. Croix River, WI
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2005-12-05 120417
Sorry about any confusion. The amp needle doesn't seem to go very far to the left, it has a minor deflections but not what it was last year. It was something that I took note of last year 'cause I used that as my "timing" indicator for holding the key (about 20 sec.). Last year it went well to the left (4/5) and then slowly (took about 45 sec. to get to the "0") back to the right, this year it seems to go about a 1/5 to the left and sort of stay there. Electrically everything seems to work fine. On a side bar I'm thinking of putting in a small tank heater, I've decided against the pad heater for cost reasons. Anyone have any tips/ideas on this? Thanks to all. ....
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| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2005-12-05 120423
What you describe as last year's meter movement is normal, the return to the right an indication that the glow plugs are warming normally. What you're describing this year sounds like less than all three glow plugs are drawing current. Are yours connected together by wire, or with a copper buss bar?
//greg// ....
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| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2005-12-05 120425
From my perspective, it's better to start up a stone cold diesel with already warmed oil. Before you invest in a tank heater, consider that the oil pan is at the very bottom of the engine - and that heat rises. As such, an oil pan heater will have a residual effect of warming the water too - at least that already in the block. If you keep your 254 in the shed, a 125W Wolverine ($45) should be adequate for your oil capacity. If it stays outdoors, the 250W is only $15 more. A good anti-freeze mixture will take care of the rest
//greg// ....
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| kalpia
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 77 Extreme Western on the beautiful St. Croix River, WI
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2005-12-05 120444
I'll check the connection method when I get home to see if it's a solid copper bar or discreet wires. I'll also fire up the Nipco to get Aggie warmed & started, it's been right around 0°F here and I don't want to wear down the starter or battery. Is the only place to get the Wolverine pad heater on the internet? I can't find any distributors in the Mpls/St.Paul area (or Western WI). Aggie is kept in the shed but it's not heated and gets well below zero once the cold weather starts. I think the 250W would be the way to go, how long does it take to warm up once you've plugged the heater in? ....
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| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2005-12-05 120446
I've got a 45hp KAMA that's parked in an unheated and open-ended shed. 250 watts of Wolverine is plenty, which is why I thought you might be able to get by with the 125w size. The way to find out for sure is to simply call them. They'll recommend the best size, and take your order right over the phone. Delivery in about 4 days.
//greg// ....
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| kalpia
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 77 Extreme Western on the beautiful St. Croix River, WI
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2005-12-07 120643
Well I bought a magnetic pan heater, 200W, and I've had it on Aggie since Tuesday. I also connected the battery charger up and it's been trickling since this morning. The needle on the charger did go all the way to full charge but I expected that. The weather is supposed to get above 20° tomorrow, it was -12 yesterday morning and got all the way up to 10° today, so I think I might give it a try. The glow plugs do have wires going from one plug to the next, not a solid copper bar, so it could be a bad plug if that indicates they're run in series and the first or second one is bad. I'll keep you posted and thanks to all for the good advice/opinions. ....
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 | AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin 
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2005-12-07 120645
The wire is 12 volts, the block is the ground, therefore they are parallel. If you have one bad one it will start hard, two and it probably won't start at all in real cold weather (<10°). ....
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| greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2005-12-07 120654
Good luck. I tried a 200W Kat's heater on my JM254 oil pan, and it was useless at those temps. No way to efficiently transfer heat through those bottom fins, and no practical side location. I ended up using the heater on the starter housing instead - and if I had to do it all over again, I'd have gotten the 300w size for THAT job too. In my experience, magnetic heaters may be handy - but they're horribly inefficient for the amount of power they consume.
//greg// ....
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 | AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 463 Troy OH
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2005-12-08 120676
By way of comparison my 32hp JD4300 has two block heaters.
A 300W engine block heater and a 150W hydraulic oil heater. Thats a total of 450W I thought it was excessive but after about 2 hours on the heaters the engine block is only just becoming warmish to the touch. I dont leave them plugged in 24/7 due to electrical cost. ....
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| kalpia
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 77 Extreme Western on the beautiful St. Croix River, WI
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2005-12-09 120758
Thanks to all and I think you're right about the magnetic heater, and I suspect the glue pads are about the same. WI is just to cold for them. I kept the package so I think I'll trade it for a block heater, messier to put in but I think better in the long run. I'll check the plugs/fuses this weekend. I'll keep you all posted. ....
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