Go BottomRifle Scope Selection
 | cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York 
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2005-10-25 118426
Any thoughts as to a good setup for varmint? I need to mount a scope on either my 5mm, M1 Carbine or pick up a 22 magnum semi-automatic.
I stopped briefly today at Gander Mountain and the selections are mind boggling. Red dot, holograms or conventional. Not to mention night vision and infrared lights. Laser would be good but illegal for long gun.
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee 
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2005-10-25 118428
I didn't realize that lasers sites were illegal for long guns. You would think for pests and varmints with no season or bag limit, it would not be an issue. For something like a 22 rifle, pretty much any of the scopes you can find on sale at Wally World would fill the requirement. Redfield or Simmons seems to be a reasonably priced decent quality scope. Sometimes you can catch 22 semi-auto rifles complete with scope mounted on sale at Wally World or other large retailers. Depending upon how much you want to spend, the sky is the limit if you want Schmidt & Bender or Zeiss. What kinda varmints are you attending too? ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-10-25 118429
Another thought just popped into my head (sound dangerous?) ;O) Try looking on: ....
Link: Bargain Outfitters
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-10-25 118430
or ....
Link: Sportsmans Guide
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2005-10-25 118431
Thanks, I will check the links. Overrun by coyote. ....
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 | badluc1
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 0 lake city Scouth carolina 
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2005-10-26 118462
5mm carbine? im an avid gun collector/shooter. The only 5mm that comes to mind were the old 5mm rimfires. thats being the case, save the gun. It has fair colector value. Get yourself a reasonable priced 22 or 22 mag. Then look at Natchez shooters supply. Their web addy doesnt come to me, but any search will pull it up. The have great deals on several facorty refurbished scopes by nikon, burris, simmons etc.leupold. All with full factory warranty and virtually blemish free. Iv bought several with total satisfaction every time. Unless you seen the box it came in, youll never know the difference.The prices are great. Ive dealt with them for years with 100% satisfaction. ....
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 | yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-10-26 118470
The gun selection depends upon where and when you are shooting. In Michigan there is no season on private property if the vermin is doing damage. On other property there is a season that requires a fur bearers license. If you hunt after dark, only rim fire cartridges are allowed. On private property anything goes! I believe lasers are allowed but not sure. I use 17HMR or .22 magnum rimfires. You can get a very inexpensive setup in single shot(New England Firearms) or bolt action (Marlin, Savage) going to better semi-autos or bolt actions are Ruger, etc. I feel the killing power of the rimfire on coyotes to limited in distance like around 100 yards which is difficult.
I use .223 and .22-250 for up to 300 and 400 yards respectively. Sometimes I use my .30-06 with 125 grain bullets. Inexpensive scopes like Bushnell's trophy edition work well for shorter distances (3x to 9X variable). I use a 4X tactical on my .223 AR-15 and a Leuopold vari-X III 6 1/2-20 variable on the .22-250. You can spend $150.00-$200.00 or $1,000-$1,500.00 or anything between. I use night vision binoculars sometimes and sometimes night vision scopes. Johnnie Steward CD's are the best on the market and any brand of CD player is OK. Stay away from portable tape players, they usually malfunction in the winter months from the coldweather.
A little roadkill placed on a limb doesn't hurt. Use scent blocker clothing and boots. They have a very, very keen scense of smell. They can also see you make the slightest movements. ....
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 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin 
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2005-10-26 118471
Experts typically recommend spending a bit of money on a scope and avoid bargain models. You can easily be fooled by poor optics because when you look through them in the store, they have almost the same light collecting ability as say a Leupold. The problem is the cheap lenses do not have the proper shape for consistent shooting. Everything's fine while shooting at a target because you have the time to find the proper eye relief and center. But in actual shooting conditions you bring the scope up to your eye quickly and may not have a good field of view. Then if you're not exactly centered on the lenses, your shot can be off even if the crosshairs are on the target. Good optics give more consistent shooting.
One of the best of the medium priced scopes is the Leupold VX-1 2-7 power (which is Leupold's least expensive). They are $179 at Gander Mtn (same as the best internet price) with no shipping . I have used a friend's quite a bit with good results and recently bought one for my own gun. I've also heard good things about Nikon.
Dave ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2005-10-26 118497
The 5mm is a rim-fire cartridge in bolt action. I purchased boxes of Remington ammunition when I found out they were going to stop making it. I stopped at Gander Mountain yesterday and the guy at the counter stated the gun is only worth $100 (mine is in perfect condition, stored most of its life) but the ammunition is worth plenty. Not sure now what to do.
I found a scope on the internet called a holoscope (I think). It fives the illusion of a projected image (cross-hair) out in front of the weapon but does not actually throw light. I believe the laser is illegal at least in NY for rifles.
There is a season here, but I am on private property. I will contact the conservation department as they issue blanket permits for property owners. The season started the first of October.
Went out tonight and tried the $20 electronic call I bought. No luck although I heard them howling. It got dark quickly and without the moon I could not differentiate between the doe that were grazing or a yote if one happened by. Time to stop, unsafe. I need something to help with the darkness. ....
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| yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-10-27 118513
I have a projecting laser on Sig 229 pistol and another on a cheapy assault rifle. I feel they are only good for rough aiming at larger body masses. It is hard to get them zeroed in and keep them there. The other problem is you still have to see the object!
Full moon lite nights are really the only time to hunt during night hours unless you go with true night optics. Night optics are expensive. The earlier Generation I is kinda crude compared to Generations III & IV. A Generation I night vision scope can run about $600.00+ Generation II scopes are about $1,500.00+ and generation III are about $3,500.00.
Consider looking at atncorp.com You can live with the Aries Generation I scope. I would get a model with either 3X or 4X power. That is about $600.00 to $800.00 and gets you out to about 150 yards in full darkness. The objects are a real grainy green but you can see them. You need to be careful in handling these types of scopes.
You can mount this to a New England Firearms (NEF) single shot .223 that already has a mounting rail for about $150.00 or a Marlin bolt action .22 magnum for about $225.00 or mount to your existing rifle. Another option for about $1,200.00 is mount it to an AR-15 with 40 round magazine in .223 caliber.
You may be able to tell that I like guns. I'd vote for you to keep the 5mm for show and purchase something new or slightly used. Plastic stocks and stainless barrels are good cause you'll be going out in damp cool weather and coming back in, brings lots of condensation.
You need a caller type player for the CD that has a mega-phone type speaker. If you just play the CD in a regular portable player, the sound doesn't project far enough. Be ready, sometimes it only takes less than a couple of minutes and they are there out right in front of you.
....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2005-10-27 118540
I looked at assorted semi-automatics today. A caliber I had not heard of (17 possibly) can't recall the book is in the truck, but at any rate, the guy told me it was the same casing as a 22 magnum necked down. I like it due to the fact that it will have the stopping power, reach out a bit and break apart quickly once into the trees.
This would run around $300. A 22 magnum with scope mount (but no sights) around $270. Both Remington.
Placing a scope on the 5mm is another option, will depend upon what I come up with for cost on all of this. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-10-27 118542
For not much more money, you could have a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle in .223. That is quit a bit more power than the Hornady .17 which in my opinion is an already obsolete and specialized cartridge. It has its merits but in the event of shortage or civil disruption; you will find that standard caliber cartridges will nearly always be available. .223 amunition has been stock piles by the billions of rounds as has .308, 9mm, and .45 ACP and even .50 BMG (not varmint round but just as example) .223 is very effective out to 300 yards for most folks and 600 yards for folks who know how to shoot. .223 is cheap and plentiful. It all boils down to personal taste and preference. ....
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| yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-10-28 118552
I have all of the calibers and agree that the .223 is the best bang for the buck. The .17 HMR is based on the .22 mag. case. The .17HMR ammo is more expensive than the .223. The .17HMR is so light that moderate cross winds can cause it to drift a foot or more at 100 yards. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't have bought the .17 HMR. I have also found that my rifle only shoots the Hornandy rounds accurately. If I shoot other brands, it wanders 3 or 4 inches at 50 yards. Later they came out with the .17mach II series which uses the same case size as the .22 long rifle. It doesn't have near the power of the .17 HMR. If I wanted a rimfire round, I'd go with the .22 mag.
You generally will only get one shot and they're gone. Seldom have I had the opportunity to shoot at more than one at a time. So you can consider a single shot or bolt action. You should seriously look at Ruger and Marlin. Many of these small caliber rifles are made for youth shooting. The length of pull (distance from trigger to butt of stock) is short. I found the Marlin to have a better fit for me. It is kinda like buying a tractor. You need to try it for fit. ....
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2005-10-28 118555
I agree with Lion and Yooper's recommendation of the .223. All of the widely used military cartridges from the past century are excellent value (223 308 and 3006). But the smaller is well sized for your target. A gun with excellent value is the NEF single shot in 223. A friend has the "survivor" model and it is deadly accurate. I think he paid $160 two years ago. In an informal competition (shaken beer can hung in a tree at 250 yds) he outshot everyone. Their $1000 rigs couldn't compete. Have fun.
Dave ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-10-28 118559
A 17 caliber, 25 grain bullet (17 HMR) is too light for coyote size critters. If you hit a bone it is liable to come apart and you will have a wounded animal wandering around.
I have seen that very thing happen using a 223 class rifle with varmint bullets on deer.
A 40 grain 22 caliber should be considered the minimum standard for clean kills on anything bigger than a jackrabbit. ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2005-10-28 118598
I have received quite an education here about ammunition, ballistics and availability. I appreciate all of it!
The longest shot I would have to make here is about 100 yards. I have a spot in my barn I can sit and watch a baited area and my shot is about 100 feet. I really don't want to put dollars into the 5mm having it fit to a scope.
Sounds as though the .223 or similar cartridge mated to a night vision scope may be the way to go. On the other hand, the coyote were in my yard in broad daylight 50% of the time I have spotted them. ....
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| yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-11-09 119146
Cutter:
Are you hunting coyotes yet? What did you purchase? ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2005-11-09 119154
Well, so far all that has happened is the 5mm trigger mechanism froze up. I soaked it, the firing pin works and trigger travel is almost nonexistent but the safety jams.
I am going to try to get rid of the eight boxes of 5mm ammunition and throw in the gun. Here tell they are worth around $40 each.
I looked at 22 magnum but it seems they tend to ricochet as a 22 will. The .17 HMR is probably what I should have, but I am hearing they may end up like the 5mm sooner or later.
Sitting in the barn using the shotgun but have not seen one yet. I have to change my timing as my bait is usually gone the next day. Tried an electronic call to no avail but it is a cheap one so I suppose you get what you pay for in this case. ....
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 | harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2005-11-10 119166
Keep feeding/baiting them. That will get the in the habit of free lunch. There will be lots of ways to approach your bait then. Those critters are extreamly wiley so your will probably have to find a spot down wind. ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2005-11-10 119203
Actually I am sitting inside the barn. I think they are more comfortable with the station now, they grabbed a chicken from a rope I had hanging about 5' in the air. I had also been leaving some on the ground which was randomly eaten. The chicken made it two weeks before they touched it, so I am quite confident I have their attention and "trust" now.
I am going to put some bait there again tonight and then hang some on a rope for the weekend, hopefully that will have them up in the air for me and more visible Saturday night. ....
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