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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2005-08-01          114197

I have been fighting a colony of pack rats on my property. There is no joke or implication here, this is a real problem. More precisely the rodents are known as White Throated Woodrats. These are incredibly destructive animals. They have nested in my truck which is parked outside. I also have a nest of them in an old race car. I have also found them in my tractor. These are probably also the same rodents that have chewed through landscape lighting wires and other electrical wiring.

I have set a couple of mechanical traps and they have not caught any so far. I built up a contraption out of PVC pipe with internal electrodes that has killed a couple of them. The PVC pipe works by turning on the power to an electric fence power supply when they are in there. That seems to be quite effective at killing them. I have been baiting these traps with dry dog food strung onto fine stainless steel wire. They trigger the trap when they tug on the kibble.

An additional problem is that these varmits can be a vector for Bubonic Plague and Hantavirus in my area. There are no reported cases coming out of my locality, but this is a serious problem with serious consequences. I am going to have to wear a respirator and disposable coveralls when I take the nest out of the race car. I have to spray for fleas and other biting bugs that can carry the Plague.

Has anyone else on the board dealt with these animals before? What brought this to mind is the other thread about the hornets. I have been trying to kill fleas and rodents at the same time in two or more places.


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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-08-01          114218

AC5ZO
I had mice problems in the past. An invasion (actually) one year! I am a 100% believer (now) in the pelletized form of a rodent control. I buy it buy the pail full. I make small makeshift containers out of tubs of margerine with a small hole in the side. This keeps the material pretty dry. I put out 5 stations around the yard and 2 more in the garage. You may be amazed at what happens to the population of mice/rats if you keep them filled for a year or so!
Good luck
....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-08-01          114221

I put out LOTS and LOTS of rat poison packets. They were nesting in my well house. I also put out mouse and rat traps baited with swiss cheese. It is irrisistable to them. A couple of Manx cats would be a good idea as well. Since I have two Manx cats and they are hunting machines. So far I have not had anymore damage or evidence of mouse or rats. ....

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-08-02          114229

What brand/kind of rat poison do you use?

I have no idea how many of these critters I have. There are rat droppings everywhere and it started building up very rapidly. Coyotes get into the barn too, but they don't generally cause me any problems. If anything, they probably catch some of the rats. I have never seen one of the live rats in the daytime.

I think that I want to continue to use my electrical contraption for a while until I stop getting hits on the bait. If I poison them now, when there are a large number of them, I am afraid that I am going to have dead rotting rats inside stuff in the barn.

The problem in the Southwest is that the fleas leave the dead rats, and they are the pests that can transfer the Bubonic Plague to humans. The rats are the carriers. As I said, plague has not been reported in my area, but there were several cases in NM last year. Hantavirus is even worse. Most people don't die from plague anymore, but hantavirus kills about a quarter of the people infected. So, I have to spray for fleas as well as control the rats. Otherwise, the fleas can get on rabbits and other mammals and survive. I am thinking about using one of those indoor insect bombs in the car with the rat nest in it.

This is not as bleak as it might seem on the surface. The plague and hantavirus tend to hit in defined areas. (Not where I live) Every now and then, someone will get infected when cleaning out a barn in random areas, but the infection rate for hantavirus in deer mice is about 50% and for Woodrats, the infection rate is below 10% for virus and plague. I don't have many deer mice, so the chances of having the infection in my area is low, but the consequences are high. The virus and plague don't kill the rats or mice.

Randy, I did not suspect that you were a cat person. ;-)
Cats don't live long in my neighborhood because of the coyotes. House cats have also been linked to plague infections when they have brought in fleas carrying the plague. At this point, I don't have any cats or dogs.

Randy, send my your new email address when you get a chance. I guess that it has changed after you moved. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-08-02          114230

While pack rats aren't a problem up here, it's too cold for them in the winter, we do have an equal menace, the Red (or Pine) Squirrel. They consider nearly anything a suitable nesting site, and will shred anything their teeth will mulch for nesting material.

We have had the best success with live traps, in fact we have built modified box traps which don't require any resetting between 'victims'. Basically a tin bax with a door which slopes down on a 45° door towards the inside. The rodent pushes their way in through the spring-loaded door trying to get to the bait inside, but can't because it's in a serate sealed 'room' within the trap. The sound and smell of other rodents inside actually seems to encourage them in. Once inside they can't get back out since they try to push their way into the corners, in the case of the door, the corner is the hinge side, even if they got the right edge they can't push, they would have to lift it up.

The nice part about it is they are sealed in, I can check it periodically and just give it a quick rinse in the pond, guests and all, after a few minutes 'rinsing' they are disposed of suitably.

The dog has what he thinks is a better way of dealing with them, but even he can only get so many. He has definitely had an influence on the level of immigration though. ;->

Best of luck.

....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2005-08-02          114233

If you have pets, be careful about the stuff you're baiting with.

Most farm stores will carry bait "rodenticide". I've had my best luck with block baits. I generally get my stuff from Tractor Supply although there are none in your area unless you shop online at www.myTSCstore.com You should be able to view the 8 different varieties they carry in their catalog. Haven't had any problems in years.

Your species is different than our local variety. I have used mechanical "bear type" traps. You need to find out the types of food they like. They may not like dog food. Rats usually hang around when you have food laying around like corn, grains or feed.

From my experience, farm cats only kill the baby rats. ....

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-08-02          114237

I have been using kibble dog food and they hit it every time I bait a trap. I have non-trapping tubes that I bait also that are fakes. They have gotten used to walking into tubes to get baits and when they walk into my electrical contraption (3" PVC pipe with electrodes and switch) they start tugging on the dog food kibble and they get fried. Rock (grey) squirels would also probably get in these traps and they will go after dog food also.

I have been taking the dog food kibble and drilling a hole in my baits and running a piece of SS welding wire through it. Then the bait is wired to the trap trigger. When I have baited the traps without the electrical supply connected, they have actually chewed through the welding wire to take the bait home. Now that I seem to have them trained to really tug and pull on the baits, they hit my electrical trap pretty regularly. I have been wiring kibble to my mechanical rat traps also. It is more work to drill/wire kibble, but I have had cheese stolen from a few traps without it being triggered. (or a triggered trap with no rat) When my electrical apparatus gets hit, I definitely have a dead woodrat inside.

I like Murf's idea of the box trap. I think that these woodrats live in small colonies, so they might follow one another into a box trap. Now that I have the rats used to crawling into tubes to get baits, perhaps I should attach a shop vacuum to the closed end of the pipe. I would bet that a 16 gallon shop vac would hold quite a few woodrats.

I wish that we did have TSC out here. When I lived in the midwest, I used to go there all the time. There is nothing like that here. I will have a look online. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-08-02          114238

"I would bet that a 16 gallon shop vac would hold quite a few woodrats."

I'll bet it would too.

I had one chewed to smithereenies (an old word from the Looney Tunes cartoons) because I vacuumed up some spilled bird seed with it and the squirrels chewed their way in to get it, then made it a home after the had their fill.

My tin box trap has so far proven to be the four-legged version of Alcatraz.

Best of luck.
....

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-08-02          114240

I used Decon in my shop to knock down the mouse population. But I put in locations where the mutts couldn't get to it.

My brother has a problem with stripies (chipmunks). His neighbor taught him a trick that has been working very good and has proven to be entertaining as well.

He takes a large old-style wash basin and fills it with water, but not to the top. He then rigs up a plank as a ramp. He covers the top of the water with sunflower seeds and makes a trail up the ramp. They go up the ramp, see the massive food in the tub and go for it. If they can swim, they survive until they get too tired to swim. Then they are gone. Fish it out using something and start all over again.

Something like that may work for your rats too. But you gott make sure the sides are steep enough that they can't climb out and deep enough they can't keep their heads above water. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2005-08-03          114288

I've got pack rats and mice. The pack rats are very smart. If you set out poison bait they will bury it or cover it in junk.

I put a rat zapper in the shed and after it bagged a couple of whoppers they covered it with rat poop and avoided it.

For the moment I am content to control the numbers with DeCon spring traps. It will catch the juveniles and the young adult rats and all the deer mice, of course.

I bait the traps with peanut butter administered with a syringe.

Mike... if you can keep the adults coming to the same trap you are doing better than I can do. And it sounds like you made the proverbial better mouse trap. My rat zappers are nowhere near that effective. I might get one carcass for every three times the things fire off. ....

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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-08-03          114301

I have heard numerous stories about Rat Zappers getting triggered and the bait taken without a kill. I am not sure why. A friend of mine improved his kill rate by putting the Rat Zapper on a wet towel so that their feet get wet before entering.

The adult woodrats just fit in a 3" PVC pipe, and in my contraption there are electrodes all around. The electric fence transformer that I use is old and probably more powerful than some of the newer ones that I have seen. Also, it plugs in and produces continuous electrical current after it is switched on. The Rat Zappers shut off to save the battery. I used my fence transformer in California to keep Opossums off of my roof and it would even kill them. A gardner also climbed up on my fence to trim a tree and got into my fence wire but he survived. He was not happy and I doubt that he ever climbed my fence again. ....

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AC5ZO
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2005-08-04          114363

Last night I got the first bait stolen from the electric trap without them triggering the electrical current. I am beginning to think that these Pack Rats are as smart as squirels. Anyway, the current potential victim seems to have used a method that thwarts the trigger.

I am going to modify the trigger a bit tonight. The first trigger that I made turned on the electric when the rat pulled on the bait. It appears that this one pushed on the bait against the wall of the pipe to eat it. So, I will change the switch to work on push or pull.

I may also cover the bait with a porous cloth or screen to make it more difficult for them to steal it.

I also had another missed trigger on my mechanical trap last night. These traps look like bigger versions ofthe wood mousetrap. I have a very small leg trap that I might put out with wired bait. It is about the size that you might use for a coyote. I don't know if the pack rats have enough weight to trigger it, but if they do, it would surely kill them. ....

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2005-08-04          114364

Are they big enough to set-off a motion sensor or trip a light beam? Sounds like you could make an interesting device with either of those technologies. ....

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AC5ZO
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2005-08-04          114366

It is interesting that you mentioned that. I have been sketching up just such a trigger circuit that would latch a relay and apply high voltage when the beam is broken. But this has to be done without the high voltage coming back into the sensing electronics and destroying it.

This has become an interesting puzzle. I am trying to make it as simple as possible, but I might try the light beam approach in the future.

I also have some very sensitive microswitches that have a small wire on them. If you touch the wire in any direction, it will trigger the relay circuit. That will probably be the next generation before I resort to light beams or PIR.

I was kicking around some ideas with a friend of mine about this problem and we figured that after we got a good trigger signal from a switch, light beam or whatever, that we could do just about anything after that from closing a trap door to turning on a vacuum cleaner motor. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-08-05          114392

I was just thinking here...........

I was taught that the best way to defeat an enemy, is to use the enemy's own habits against him.

A rat will not hesitate to force itself into a small space in the quest for food.

Since the rat is a 4-legged animal, it will always stand on at least one foot on each side of it's body at any one time.

It seems to me that you could completely eliminate the mechanical switch entirely by making the rat's own body form the switch itself.

A non-conductive floor in a narrow tunnel, with a conductive strip laminated (a la PC board) on each side of the floor would ensure that the rat would complete the circuit with it's feet as it walked along the tunnel. If the tunnel were sloped uphill, gravity might even eject the victim once it died and lost it's grip. A bait which was sufficiently delicous smelling enough, and a long enough tunnel would ensure that there was no way the rat could even get to, let alone eat, the bait.

Of course if you wanted to get rather macabre, you could try the idea one of my employees came up with. A baited piece of PVC tube, connected to a large volume air tank, and pointed at a solid object. The rat goes in for the food, hits the trigger and the compressed air turns him into a kamakazee rat missle.

I like the electrified tunnel of death myself, all of which goes into the category of Plan 'B' in the Destroy Squirrels file.......

Best of luck. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2005-08-05          114397

I like the rat mortar idea. Except it would be more fun to launch them toward the crabby neighbors yard.

I suspect the commercial Rat Zapper would work a lot better if I could find some sort of conductive paste to coat the plates.

I think there is not enough current getting through their little footsies. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-08-05          114401

Mark, I don't exactly HOW conductive it is, but I'm told the copper-based anti-seize pastes available at any place that sells auto supply stuff is VERY conductive.

Best of luck. ....

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JD855inWI
Join Date: Aug 2004
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2005-08-05          114403

How does the zapper work? You are using a electric fencer supply secondary? If getting contact is a problem, switch to an old furnace ignition transformer. Output is 8000 to 16000 volts, lots of voltage, but lower current. It may do the job. If not it’ll sure burn the hair off.
How about triggering a pneumatic cylinder and firing a bolt into the pipe. Live better eclectically!
....

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-08-05          114404

Murf & Mark, those electrical pastes do work. I've used them on certain electical connections as an engineer to prevent corrosion from cutting out the electrical circuit. They do conduct electricity and may be just what you need to make the electric rat circuit work.

Personnaly, I love the rat mortar myself. I'm at work and deperately trying not to laugh too loudly. It reminds me of those air powered pumpkin launchers. I bet it would work. Even if they survived, they'd be pretty shaken up. ....

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funchy
Join Date: May 2004
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2005-08-05          114406

I think killing them off one by one is a lost cause. More will just move in.

Find out why you're having such a problem with them. Are you storing grain, birdseed, or anything else that is their food supply? Can your vehicles be made less like safe havens for them? If the cars are sitting outdoors and not being used for so long rats are nesting in them, have you thought about selling them or moving them indoors?

Also try to think of ways to make the area scarier to rodents. Rats like cover, tall grass/weeds, and stuff in the yard to hide in/under. Cut the grass along the house foundation and around your cars super-short. Remove anything in the yard they can hide under (lawn equipment, wheelbarrows, and such).

Poison is a double-edged sword. It'll work for awhile. Then you'll be left with rats who prefer not to eat it or who have a natural resistance to the chemical. In the meantime you're leaving around a poison pellets and toxic carcasses that your pets, local wildlife, or small kids could get hurt with. Plus rats sometimes pick stupid places to die, leaving your garage smelling of rotting roadkill for weeks. Yuck. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2005-08-05          114409

The reason I have a lot of rodents has nothing to do with how I take care of my land. I live on a 1200 square mile tract of BLM open range.

I can't use poison because I don't want to kill the cottontail, quail, deer, wild horses and numerous song birds, hawks and eagles. ....

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AC5ZO
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2005-08-05          114413

I don't have any grain or food sources stored either. I just live in the high desert like Mark and these things live everywhere around here. They are opportunists and will come in out of the rain. (when it occurs) The point is that they will live inside as well as outside.

The car that has been infested is an offroad race car. It is not exactly air tight. It is being stored inside a barn that is not air tight either, so the rats get in there. I am building an new "tight" shop, but it won't be done for a couple of months. I don't want to clean it out because of the Bubonic Plague and Hantavirus potential that the fleas and feces in the nest will carry. This weekend, I am going to put an insect bomb in the car and that might make the place undesirable for the rats also.

If you read the thread about the undesirable neighbors, you might understand that I moved away from a pretty nice place with a nice shop because I had a neighbor that was a loud abusive jerk that was connected into the political structure and I was constantly being charged with this or that violation of zoning or covenants. It was a total pain. I am just trying to get a new shop built and get my life back to normal after a move a year ago. Finding a contractor to build the shop was another adventure.

Murf, my first design had no switch, but the rats would not go in to take the bait. They could either sense the 7000 volt potential or they got a slight jolt before being fully inside and decided to dine elsewhere. So, the switch was to make sure that they were in the middle of the kill zone. They would not even go in there before I grounded the power supply. At first I just wired it up floating and they would not go near it, but would eat the bait out of the passive tubes that I had placed around. Currently I have the trap sitting on a large metal plate that grounds the fence transformer and the rat walks up on the plate and into the copper lined PVC pipe to get to the bait. By the time he tugs (or pushes as of last night's design update) on the bait, the rat cannot get out without taking a lethal shot.

What I am trying to do is to reduce the "inside" population without having dead poisoned rats in places I cannot see. After I stop getting hits on my trap, I will switch over to poison baits for general control.

I was talking about this with a buddy and he is building up a copy of my trap, but he is going after squirels. He is using a neon light transformer and I suspect that he will literally fry the squirel in place. I did not want the liability of a lethal device, so I opted for an electric fence transformer that I know is powerful enough. ....

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AC5ZO
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2005-08-17          115000

Just an update.

I have caught six or seven pack rats in total. I am no longer getting any hits on any of my traps or passive bait stations. So, I think that I wiped out the colony.

I dropped a fumigation bomb into the race car and re-covered it to kill any fleas and insect pests. It looks like they were using the expensive racing seat as a toilet, so I have some work to do there with enzyme cleaners.

I also sprayed around the open part of the barn and dropped a couple more fumigation bombs into the closed part of the barn. I haven't seen any live rats, spiders, or insects in the area since I finished my assault.

I am going to clean out the nest in the car this weekend if I get time. I will also lay down some of those waxy poison bars to kill scouts that might check out the sterilized area. ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2005-08-17          115014

My buddies do gs have ate more than their share of rat poison. Infact one of them ate a whole package wrapper and all! No real lasting effects.
Bringing in a pack of coyote's will work.
All this talk about electricution is getting to me. Anyone remember that movie where the guy started eating the mice? Cooked em up right infront of their brothers and sisters?
I think Iowafun and you guys need to get together! He has snakes and you all have good food!
Man, I thought I had problems with hornets! Nothing compared with what youall are describing! The plague?? Geesh! Think good ole Wisconsin is looking pretty good again! ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2005-08-17          115018

Be careful with rat poison and dogs. We were at my sister in laws house last Christmas, and while we were there she had three dogs eat some after the kids found it behind some stuff outside. The vet couldn't save them and all the dogs died. She was terribly broken up over it. ....

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AC5ZO
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2005-08-18          115050

I don't have any dogs. I do have a pack of coyotes roaming the area. If they get into the rat poison...too bad. I don't actively hunt the coyotes, but they aren't domestic animals either. ....

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kwschumm
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2005-08-18          115054

We have coyotes too. If we didn't have dogs I'd set out a case of D-Con for the coyotes to enjoy. ....

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Iowafun
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2005-08-19          115090

I hide my Dcon boxes under and behind large objects where the mice/rodents can go and the dogs can't. Glad I checked this posting again, I remember seeing a mouse in the shop earlier this week. I need to get more set out. They go through it like kids with candy. ....

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kwschumm
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2005-08-19          115094

My SIL's D-CON was behind some stuff outside where the dogs couldn't get it. Unfortunately the kids who were visiting were playing and moved things around to where the dogs could get it. ....

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