Go Bottom17HMR vs 17Mach2 cartridge
 | yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan 
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2005-05-17 111161
Last Year I bought a rifle with .17HMR and was not totally pleased with the performance however have not done lots of shooting with it to be sure. I see a new .17Mach2 that is now out and many have adopted it. Does anyone know the story behind the two?
I know the .17HMR was developed by Hornady. They have also private branded some ammo with a different tip that has no accuracy in my rifle. I have an el-cheapo rifle which may be the problem. I found the .17HMR to drift with fluctuations in a cross wind at even 50 yards.
Wish I would have bought the old .22Mag for its reliability. I'm looking for something more potent than a .22 long and have .223 and .22-250 for long range shooting.
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 | havoctec
Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 56 Minnesota 
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2005-05-17 111164
I don't know anything about the mach2 but I have heard from several other people about bullet drift with those light .17 cals. If you are thinking of updating to the mach2, you will still have the wind drift problem because of the light .17 bullet. If you are changing rifles again I would just go with the 22 mag. Just my somewhat informed opinion but I am no expert on ballistics.
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 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin 
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2005-05-17 111165
Yooper, The main difference is that yours is a necked down 22 mag and the mach2 is a necked down 22 long rifle cartridge. The idea then is for manufacturers to be able to produce a new gun with a long rifle platform.
Here's a link below to the NRA mag's article.
Dave ....
Link:
Click Here
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada 
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2005-05-17 111167
The 17 HMR is a necked down 22 Mag, the Mach 2 is a necked down 22 Long Rifle. It uses the same bullet as the HMR but is slower and even more prone to wind drift.
Some of the latest reviews, now that the "new" hype has passed, are saying that neither 17 has the killing power of the parent cartridge on anything larger than a ground squirrel. ....
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-05-17 111171
Have you considered a 22 Hornet? It kinda falls in between the 22LR and 223. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-05-17 111172
Yes, look at the Hornet. Neat little cartridge. ....
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| yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-05-17 111174
In Michigan we are allowed to hunt varmints after dark but only with rimfire cartridges. I wanted some new high tech caliber just for fun!
I bought an H&R single shot which is a cheapy and can get another barrel for it. Chances are I'll get a .22 mag. to compare performance.
Looks like the .17Mach2 will be a more popular round in the years to come.
I also have a bolt action rifle chambered for .22 long rifle. Shooting .22 CCI Stingers works well also. Hindsight tells me I should have stuck with the older reliable ammo.
I'm thinking the same thing about all of the new short magnums coming out these days. There are too many and some will fall by the wayside over the years to come. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-05-17 111176
Are you hunting on your own private property? If this is the case; the rimfire restriction may not apply to you. ....
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 | StephenR
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 230 New Tripoli, Pa.
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2005-05-17 111185
Thanks for the real life info on this round. My next gun was going to be something else, but was considering it for groundhogs. I didn't want to stop using my .22 cal bolt action Marlin my late Father bought me for my 12th birthday anyway. ....
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| yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-05-17 111189
I hunt on both private and public land. The private land allows me to do pretty much anything I want. My AR-15 shooting .223 with target barrel and 15 round clip equipped with night vision works well on this remote land.
For long range daylight shooting on diked trails I use my Browning .22-250 with Leupold 6 1/2-20 Vari-XIII. I also have a Harris bi-pod set-up.
This fall/winter with a fur bearer's license I plan on hunting fox and coyote along the banks of the AuSable River near Oscoda which is public land. It is filled with tracks during winter months and have located a number of dens. The hair filled droppings are another clue.
Best hunting is at dusk or slightly after. Have a Johnny Stewart CD and player. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2005-05-17 111192
One thing I think we can establish: 17 rimfires and woodchucks should not be in the same picture, unless you are pretty close and real good with head shots.
Yooper: There are some newish rounds out now for the 22 mag, with lighter weight bullets, increased range and killing power on coyote size and smaller critters.
If you like Mauser's, as I do, you should take a peek at CZ rifles. They have a scaled down mauser action chambered in 22 Hornet, which by the way, has some new, hot factory loadings that make it a true 300 yard varmint getter.
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 | Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2005-05-17 111195
Sturm, Ruger is proud to introduce five rifle models for 2004 in an exciting new caliber: the 204 RUGER. This small, fast, and efficient new cartridge is the result of another joint development effort between Sturm, Ruger and Hornady Manufacturing Company. The 204 RUGER shares the same case head and overall length dimensions as the 222 Remington Magnum, but uses a slender new 20 caliber, 32 grain, V-MAX bullet. The 204 RUGER’s bullet has an extremely efficient ballistic coefficient of 0.192 and an amazing muzzle velocity of 4,225 feet per second.
When compared directly with either the 22-250 Remington or the 220 Swift, the 204 RUGER offers higher muzzle velocity and flatter trajectory. Because the 204 RUGER cartridge achieves a higher velocity with less propellant than either the 22-250 Remington or the 220 Swift, this new cartridge does not compromise barrel life. The 204 RUGER also offers lower recoil and muzzle report than comparable high-velocity, sub-caliber ammunition. Its conventional case shape avoids feeding problems and increased rearward bolt thrust associated with short and super short magnum cartridges.
Because this new caliber provides significant benefits for varmint hunters and target shooters alike, Sturm, Ruger is introducing five rifle models chambered for the 204 RUGER. These include three bolt action rifles and two single shot rifles. The Ruger M77 MKII bolt action rifles include: the M77R in blued steel with a cut-checkered American walnut stock; the KM77RLFP Ultralight All-Weather in stainless steel with a synthetic stock and a light contour barrel; and the Target Grey KM77VT Target rifle in stainless steel with a brown, laminated wood stock, heavy target barrel, and two-stage target trigger. Ruger No.1 single shot models include the No. 1 Standard in blued steel with a cut-checkered American walnut stock and the No. 1 Stainless Varminter in stainless steel with a black, laminated stock.
A friend of mine has one and says it's definitely a keeper. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2005-05-18 111228
Just my opinion here......... that and 75 might get me a cup of coffee. ;O) I have made upto 100 yard shots with a 22LR. Out to about 75 yards; a 22LR should be able to cover most issues. Beyond that, I use a 223. There are a whole candy store of various calibers that are out there to choose from but depending upon how much you shoot; the cost of ammo can make its use prohibitive. Unless you like the hobby of reloading or have a particular application that requires handloading; reloading is just not cost effective nor practical. The basic cartridges produced in mass volume such as 22, 9mm, 45 ACP, 223, 308, and 30.06 can be purchased for much less than half the cost of these other new cartridges. There is no way I can reload a box of 223 for $4, or a box of 12 gauge for $2.
If the 22 can't cover it, the 223 can. From there the 308 or 30.06 can cover things upto all but the largest game applications. I have a 375 H&H for that but something along the lines of a 338 Winchester or 45-70 will do. These are still fairly plentiful with respect to availability.
I think sticking with the basic, tried and true cartridges is the best way.
What I don't understand or see the logic in is why the restriction on rim fire ammo only? This seems to be the same illogical logic that muzzle loading restrictions has produced. A modern muzzle loader with a rifled barrel, with provisions for a 209 primer, burning smokeless powder, pushing a modern partitioned, jacketed bullet is no different than a rifle. May as well change the restriction to single shot rifles. But the whacky game and hunting laws the states come up with is a subject for anther thread.
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 | grf2k4
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 19 NW Washington
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2005-05-18 111229
How 'bout a Ruger .204? ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-05-18 111230
Growing up on a farm, varmit hunting was the only part-time job available. We used to get the local farmers to pay us to rid them of whatever pests they had.
The popular choice was a .22, mostly for economic reasons.
It also had a big benefit though, it taught us important lessons in patience, stalking and camoflage.
Now that I'm older though, read lazier, I agree more & more with the long range theory, a .223 with a decent scope is the instrument of choice.
Best of luck. ....
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| yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-05-18 111234
I should never have purchased the .17HMR but have it now and will stick with it. In a moment of passion for something new I made the purchase but only bought a cheapie gun so nothing was really lost. I'm told the .17HMR will dust a fox or coyote quite easily if properly placed. Chances are a .22 Stinger or .22Mag would have done the same thing for evening hunting shots. I can't argue with the reasoning behind Michigan DNR laws. Got to give the animals some sort of chance.
On my farm which is open land with 1/2 mile depth to a RR and neighbors on each side that are about 300 and 600 yards away, I'm concerned about shooting a .223 at rodents, etc.
I have a shooting box set-up which is 2ft square x 4" thick with sand and a 1/2" thick steel plate behind it for carefully plinking any round.
Even with the .22Long Rifle, I'm nervous about a side shot at a racoon. Many of my coons won't fit in a cage type trap since they're big. Ones that do fit in the cage can take about 2 head shots and several lung shots with a .22 before letting them out of the cage. Sometimes, they still do lunge and hiss at you.
I chose the .17HMR since I was told the ballistics are so great with the small projectile that it explodes upon impact with the ground. This would hopefully stop stray rounds from getting at the neighbors.
I normally don't pack a rifle in my car and with my CCW, rifles aren't included. You're not supposed to go driving around with a rifle in your car unless it is for hunting purposes, you have a license, and it is in season.
I have bunches of stray cats at the farm that you can't get much less than 15 yeads away from. They push out my farm cats and eat all the food. They watch my tame cats get caught in the live trap but won't go inside themselves. Then they urinate all over inside my barn and on tools and everywhere.
I carry a .357Mag and it isn't doing the job for cats that I want. The .357Mag hollow point don't expand, so the impact point must be right on to be instantaneously effective. Being a pistol, I can't get quite the accuracy needed. I can only hold about a 2 " pattern at 15 yards with most being in a 1" circle (8 3/8" barrel length). I'm not into torture or cruelty to animals. These stray cats gotta go but not on my tools, tractors, etc. Nothing like stepping into something just before mounting the tractor or getting back into your truck. ....
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2005-05-18 111235
Everybody loves the venerable old 22 but it's got a rainbow trajectory. The 17 mach2 shoots vertually flat to 100 yards.
"Hornady's trajectory figures look like this: +0.7" at 50 yards, 0 at 100 yards, and -4.4" at 150 yards. This is a very useful trajectory for small game hunting, far better than that of the .22 LR, which has a 2.7" rise at 50 yards and 10.8" drop at 150 yards when zeroed at 100 yards. Practically speaking, a .22 LR rifle needs to be zeroed at about 75 yards to avoid over-shooting small animals like squirrels at intermediate distances, so the .17 M2 has about a 25 yard advantage in range over the .22 LR."
Flat shooting and 20% more energy than the 22 long rifle. No lead fouling of the barrel. Sounds like a winner to me. The main negative is price. You won't find ammo for $2 a box for the mach2, more like $6 a box.
Dave
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2005-05-18 111236
Yooper said "I should never have purchased the .17HMR but have it now and will stick with it. In a moment of passion for something new I made the purchase but only bought a cheapie gun so nothing was really lost. "
I wouldn't give up on the NEF yet, or was it an H&R? Either way it's the same rifle. Especially if you haven't shot it alot. I've read that it takes at least 100 rnds for the barrel to break in. I've got a single shot NEF 30-06 and it's a real tack driver. My good friend has the same thing in .223 and he regularly beats the guys with much more expensive guns (with .223s and 22-250s) at 300 yds.
Dave ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-05-18 111238
I've found the best way to deal with raccoons, feral cats and porcupines, the most common problems around here, is a 12 ga. and my dog.
He puts them up the tree, I bring them back down. ;->
Best of luck. ....
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| yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-05-18 111240
Shortmagnum:
It is actually a NEF but like you said H&R and them are the same creature. The finish is like black oxide and so rough that you can't wipe it decent without snagging your rag/cloth. If you don't keep it dripping wet with oil, finger prints will rust in a couple of hours use.
With a Bushnell 3-9X scope and rest, I expected to be able to virtually drive tacks at 25-50 yards. If you use CCI ammo you can't hold a 3" pattern. The Hornady ammo gets closer to 1" but has an occasional flyer. I'm angry about this but don't know who to blame; the gun, the ammo or me!
I can do that with my Marlin or Savage .22 long rifle and 2 1/2X scope. ....
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 | glocknut30
Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 18 Raleigh, NC
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2005-05-20 111297
I picked up a Ruger 77/17 last year and installed a target trigger from Volquartsen.
At first, I too wasn't all that impressed. It placed the little plastic bullet right where it was supposed to go but all it did was make a little hole. Where’s the fun in that???
So I tried again at my .22 rimfire spinner target that uses 3/16” plate and is supposed to flip and stay up until reset (assuming you hit the darn little swinging knob!). The .17HMR left a crater the size of a dime and almost punched out the entire center of the spinner! The energy this little round has is amazing.
Yes, I did gain the opportunity to try it out on Mr. Garden Eating Groundhog and one shot flipped him over onto his backside and he was forever mooning the sky. I found a small entrance wound, no exit hole and a bunch of ground giblets inside. Sorry for the details but I think it is important to the post.
Next came the Corn Eating Crows. One shot, a puff of feathers and no more crow.
Based on my direct experience, with a good firearm, the .17HMR is one fine varmint round. Just watch the wind and distance.
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