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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2005-03-08          107550

Why couldnt bush or congress play hard ball with OPEC? SOmething like announce plans to introduce a BILL for law.
On this LAW we can set up a program that will aoutomatically throw 2 million dollars extra a month into a fund to help produce NON GAS using machines :IE cars, tractors etc.Every month that the price of oil is over $40 a barrel we put extra money into funds to help produce these types of engines?
Play chicken with opec! Let them know we will not stand for this!!! The staus qou right now is screww the americans and other country's with no oil.
Time we do something about this!
To all you dem. out there: Maybe the republicans should attack anouther country to steal their oil? How wrong were they on that one?
LOL


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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2005-03-08          107567

BA
I think this will correct itself in time , if we can afford to wait!
If these prices continue,and the predictions are correct for
this summer, they will smother the economy.
I like your idea though, no dought this country can come up
with something if we put our minds to it.
But, big money brings big power,+ big power brings big
money.
You can't get elected without it, and then it's payback time.
Have you once heard this administration show any concern
about the high energy costs and the toll it is taking on the American family?
End of Rant, raw nerve with me!
How's that application coming? ....

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dsg
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2005-03-08          107571

Maybe it's not OPEC?, Maybe it's the oil company's right here at home? They are Oil people and are Republicans, Our president is an Oil people an a Republican? Just a thought.

David ....

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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2005-03-08          107580

Only republicans are "oil people"? I think you'll find that with a little research there is plenty of oil money on both sides of the aisle.

Another point: The dollar has been encouraged to be valued lower and lower lately. What is a good thing for some aspects of the economy, is poor for others. Lower oil buying power is one of these effects. Oil is now, what, somewhere around $47 per barrell? A good (better) price was when it was $30, or $25 two years ago, right? Where was the dollar value two years ago? Hmmmmmm. THis is NOT a simple price gouging situation on the oil companies or even OPEC. It is a larger economic situation. ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-03-08          107586

I recall seeing the news with US oil companies posting record profits in the past year or so. It seems the price of oil goes up 5% and the price of gas goes up 10%. Its not like it costs much more to refine a more expensive barrel of crude so why such an increase if it is not just gouging. It is all a game they play, larger than anyone here can join. Supply and demand? The additional charge, excess to what OPEC imposed is to curb demand because supply is short. Who in this country is using any less with higher prices, no one I can see, so demand has not lowered. If supply is lower, who is going without? How about the game of raising prices. Gas is a dollar, then is goes to 1.50 and everone screams. What a relief when it goes back to 1.25, no one is upset. Then it goes to 1.75 and everyone screams. What a relief when it goes back to 1.5, all is well. Now it is around 2.00 and this summer it may get above 2.50. Wow will we all be relieved when it gets back to 2.25. ....

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-03-08          107599

YEp, it's bad out there. There are many forces tugging at the oil prices. One is fear of a supply crunch. another is speculators working to keep the prices high. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has figured out how to artificially keep the prices high through manipulation like what Enron did during the California electricity crisis.

One problem is China's economy is roaring ahead at 110% full throttle. They are the major cause behind the demand increase for oil and fuel. Add in lack of stability with Russia's crooked Yukos deal and Nigeria acting up. There is a South American country acting up as well, but their name escapes me. So people are driving up the price through fear.

Sucks for us. I'll be on the motorcycle soon to keep my fuel costs down. Not much I can do about the prices except switch to alternative vehicles and limit my trips from home. ....

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AV8R
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2005-03-08          107600

You know what's really sad, is either of my VW's get better gas milage than my HD motorcycles do. LOL ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2005-03-08          107602

Iowafun hit it right on the head. China's economy is driving the cost of oil. They are also soaking up all the available trees/lumber in Asia.

There is another answer to ease the crunch. ANWR. And don't feed me the PC line.... I lived there for most of my adult life so I know better.

If you have several MILLION acres of wilderness that is NOT HABITABLE by humans, or even visited for that matter, how in the heck do you ruin it by developing 150 ACRES for oil production?

We, in our national stupidity, deserve to pay through the nose for our fuel. It's just too damn bad that we would rather enrich people who hate us instead of building an oil well in a mosquito infested(July)/frozen(the rest of the year)wasteland. ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2005-03-08          107603

DRankin
I LOVE YOU MAN!!! My feelings exactly. I still go back to thinking we need to play ball with these oil rich countries. They want to jack the price up or pump less then we should start to seriously expand our fuel capability. These countries may be doing the USA a favor? If they wake a sleeping giant they will lose in the long run. They may just push the price so high that our govt. both demecratic and republican get their heads out of their ass and do something about it. This name calling and pointing of fingers at who did what and who did not do enough has to end. I hope they piss off enough people that this happens. BTW I though I heard the price of oil is now at $55 a barrel? ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2005-03-09          107620

They are not going to get their head out their ass,if they do, the money goes away.
I understand that part of it is there has not been a refinerey built in this country for 20 yrs. They are all at capacity. They seem to like it as is, got us right by the short ones. Why drill for more oil? they aren't going to introduce it into the equation? ....

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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-03-09          107659

We have two major problems for the fuel prices. The money OPEC and others funnel (through laundering to keep it hush hush) to the environmental wackos to fight any new drilling is one of them. Who can argue against pictures of cariboo frolicking in fields of wildflowers when the reality is the area was mostly barren rock with some lichen.

Second as someone pointed out is we don't have refinery capacity to process the oil. It's the "not in my backyard" mentality. There is no way the tree whakos in California will let one be built there. Second, a new refinery costs about $1 billion. A pretty hefty investment. If you build it on cheap land near a slum, you get lawsuits claiming you are discriminating against minorities. If you try to put in near wealthier towns, their lawyers go after you.

If you want affordable gas, someone's gotta accept the plant needed to process it. ....

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brokenarrow
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2005-03-09          107699

Thing is to that the USA people just dont care. We would never give up our suv's hee hee ....

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grinder
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2005-03-10          107706

When has any of them tried to build another refinery?
I think they like it as is. Exxon/bush/cheney/Mobil. ....

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DRankin
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2005-03-10          107720

They can't build new refineries without a major change in the EPA.

If Bush and Cheney were in office to make money as oil barons, you would think they would be throttling the EPA and building what is needed. ....

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grinder
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2005-03-10          107752

They already got the money,from the oil companies, that's how you get the office. If the oil companies wanted a refinery you would hear bush(no capital) fighting for one. ....

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DRankin
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2005-03-10          107765

Ahhhh..... Right..... Sure....

....

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grinder
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2005-03-11          107769

What?
you don't think they expect something for the money the donated to his campaign?
I supposed they did it out of the kindness of their hearts.
"Jesus's general will save the world" ....

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Iowafun
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2005-03-11          107783

To invest in a new plant like an oil refinery means you need an incentive to do so. Potential profits is one such motive. But by not investing in a new plant, the price of gas keeps going higher making your existing plants more profitable with no capital investment. So where is the incentive? ....

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DennisCTB
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2005-03-11          107786

If the profit margin increases, new competitors come in to reap the profits, and eventually decrease the excessive profit margins.

Big problem with refineries is that they are expensive, take along time to build, have lots of regulations, and no one wants them in their neighborhood as well.
....

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yooperpete
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2005-03-11          107788

I think we could solve some of the world's oil crisis by converting large numbers of diesel engines over to burning fat by using the grease from all the fast food chains. Maybe we should design other engines to burn corn kernels like in some furnaces being offered these days. If we let the farmers really make ethanol and get archerdanielsmidland out of the way we could have a chance by mixing ethanol with fat/grease, etc. ....

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AnnBrush
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2005-03-11          107789

The international price for oil is quoted and traded in US dollars so the value of the dollar to other currencies does not directly affect the price of a barrel in the US (a weak dollar effectively makes oil cheaper elsewhere in the world). The US produces about a quarter of its own oil requirements, that makes us largely dependent on foreign oil, the majority of which come from OPEC countries. The amount of fuel used for transport which is not directly or indirectly dependent on oil is miniscule, that means that we have very limited capacity to switch energy sources. Drilling in ANWR will only produce (if any) oil in years time, long enough to make its contribution to supply/demand economics trivial. Oil is still relatively cheap here in the US, ask anyone in Eurpoe or Africa. People still complain but their actions dont match their words, we still buy hulking 8 cylinder vehicles. Gas (or diesel) generally does not hit the radar on the average family budget. When it comes to changing the price of oil OPEC have by far the strongest hand the rest is just political posturing on our part as we cant really do anything about oil production, and we are having an increasingly smaller say in the size of demand for oil. Our politicians talk and talk about the price of oil and the traders pay no attention, but you can bet they all know when the next meeting of OPEC is and any change on OPEC's part and the price of a barrel feels it. The US is a becomming a proportionally less important player in the world supply/demand scenario for oil, I think its time we stopped shouting and really did something about it - make your next car a hybrid etc - actually no why bother gas is cheap I will just get something a little bigger than I need - perhaps a 45 hp tractor as opposed to a 32 hp I currently have. Its all just talk we are paying spectators at this show. ....

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dklopfenstein
Join Date: Jul 2004
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2005-03-11          107794

No matter what the reason, I filled up my truck to the tune of $57.25 for 87 octane at $2.09 per gallon. It is only going to get worse...everything will go up in price due to transportation price increases. Our country does need to find a fuel that we can self-support. Without this, we are letting the Middle East control us economically, which will lead to rough times in near future. ....

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yooperpete
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2005-03-11          107795

All kidding aside, we as Americans are between a rock and a hard spot. Anything done in Alaska now is too late for the immediate future and that is only a ploy by oil companies to get it ok'd. The oil companies don't want to turn it on in the Gulf or anywhere unless they have to. We are short on refining capacity and the oil companies like it because it means hugh profits. They're pretending that it is too costly to build more refineries and too many regulations in the way in an attempt to get shortcuts and a free lunch. Lobbyist's are stopping anything from happening and the Republicans and Democrats are equally at fault. We're loosing some of our clout while others are getting oil cheaper because of the weak dollar as Ann has stated.

Hydrid cars/SUV don't do us rural people any good since they are designed for primarily city driving and do work better in warmer climates further adding to our problems as Northern country bumpkins.

Because I have three drivers in my family, we have an extra older vehicle which gets good mileage around 30mpg on the highway. We switch around using it and I attempt to particularly use it whenever possible in place of my F250. I've thought about the extra insurance and cost to own and operate an extra vehicle and figure if the other vehicles last longer I'm about even and can go anywhere I want at anytime. It is a way to feel that I'm not letting the system cramp my style.

Likewise, cars go in for service and loaners aren't always available. It is just plain convenient. When it is a nasty day with lots of salt on the road, I like to take my beater. We take it to shopping malls so people can crash carts into it, etc. If you drive the beater 24,000 miles per year in place of a 17 mpg average vehicle that would take 1411 gallons of gas, at 28 mpg the beater would only use 857 gallons. At $2.15 per gallon that's only just under $1,200.00 per year savings. But by stretching the use of my other 3 vehicles between one and five years each, particularly my F250 I figure that is a justification.

Hope nobody kills me while driving the Grand Am GT. I chose one that doesn't look to bad yet and is stylish to further make me feel good about the situation. So, I've also made it fun at the same time.

I generally attempt to never let problems get me down and turn the negatives into positives! ....

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2005-03-12          107817

"ask anyone in europe"
Ann, would you agree they have many more
benifits in some of those countries.
Pensions and medical care, not so many
homeless people wandering the streets.
My point is that they get something back
for the high tax,on gas, and alcohol,smokes.
....

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DRankin
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2005-03-12          107828

"My point is that they get something back
for the high tax,on gas, and alcohol,smokes."

Grinder, I think I can help you out, and I will cut you a much better deal than the government.

Just send me $1000 a month and after a year I will send $600 back to you every month. I can use the extra cash and you will "get something back".

....

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grinder
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2005-03-12          107853

Thanks Ann ....

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Justus
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2005-03-13          107946

There are those on this thread that seem to put all the blame on Bush-Cheney. It's like Bush went over to the "Oil Wall" in the White House and turned up the COST OF OIL DIAL like we'd turn up the thermostat in our home. I'm sure they're the same ones that said we went into Iraq just for oil. If that's the case I'm STILL waiting for the damn oil and it doesn't look like it's coming in my lifetime. Unlike others I'm not going to sit here and pretend to know all the answers. One thing I DO know however IS this isn't something that developed in the last 4 years and I'm sick to death of hearing everything blamed on Bush. Bush certainly has his faults but let someone tell me that Clinton and every president since Washington hasn't had their faults and I'll show you a real moron. AOL had a poll asking who you thought was responsible for the high oil prices; Bush, OPEC, oil companies and the majority felt it was Bush (SEE THE OIL DIAL ABOVE). One thing I will say for Bush is he has a "set" and he means what he says which is something that has been lacking in this country for some time. This world is pretty screwed up right now and it will be for a long time after Bush, and whoever the next 20 presidents are. It will be until we start to stick together, know the difference between right and wrong and do something about the wrong and those that would do us wrong. Buckle up folks, it's going to be a long bumpy ride, going to get a lot bumpier and I doubt any of us on this board right now will see the paved portion of this highway. ....

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funchy
Join Date: May 2004
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2005-03-13          107947

"On this LAW we can set up a program that will aoutomatically throw 2 million dollars extra a month into a fund to help produce NON GAS using machines :IE cars, tractors etc.Every month that the price of oil is over $40 a barrel we put extra money into funds to help produce these types of engines?"

Good idea. I do see a flaw in your logic. Although tractors do not use gas, they do use diesel. Even hybrid cars depend on petroleum products (gas, just less of it) to go.

The only way to get out from under Opec's thumb is to find a way to survive without buying much from them. Buy from south america or drill domestically. Explore nuclear, solar, and wind power to make to more efficient.

Most importantly the Bush family needs to go against their oil-wealth roots and take a long-term stand on energy usage. Take funding research of alternative power (like solar) seriously. Start giving REAL tax incentives to those who conserve energy and/or get energy without using oil products. Ignore the powerful plastic lobby and push for more bio-plastics. Look into methanol and other renewable resources for heating and vehicles.

And this may sound totally counter intuitive, but RAISE the price of on-the-road fuels. If gas cost $4.50 a gallon like it does in Europe, suddenly carpooling, transit, and gasmileage would be "cool". (My only worry is if the goverment adds a $2/gal gas tax, you know they're going to pee the money away) ....

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Murf
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2005-03-14          107987

I think somewhere along the lines here the trtain came off the tracks, I think it happened when the train was still in the station actually.

OPEC is a group of countries that export oil.

The oil itself is produced and sold by OIL COMPANIES.

If you look at the world-wide oil industry you will see who produces the majority of the world's petroleum products. A handfull of huge corporations produce & distribute the majority of the world's oil supply.

The OPEC member countries have become rich off their share, the royalties payable to the country in which the oil is produced, not from selling it themselves.

BTW, guess which country most of those big oil companies are based in? LOL.

Best of luck. ....

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hardwood
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2005-03-14          107991

It's really too bad that we as Americans did'nt take the first oil shortage more seriously in the 1970's. Perhaps by now we could by another energy source be less dependent on OPEC. Most everyone was upset by President Nixon when he put the 55 speed limit in force, but first of all id did save lives and also fuel. Even today with the high price of fuel you hear about people demanding higher speed limits and luxury gas guzzlers still seem to be the "Thing". I'm not excluding myself here because I like horsepower and the freedom to go places that I really could do without too. I won't get into the policys of politicians or oil co's, I have opinions yes, but not enough solid knowledge to discuss most of that. Maybe if we all just backed off the throttle by 10 MPH. that would be a little help. Frank. ....

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grinder
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2005-03-18          108207

Murf
Somewhere where they don't pay taxes? ....

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