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Diesel fuel for new tractor

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drbandson
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 25 Long Island,NY
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2004-03-18          80351

I recently purchased a new L48 kubota. I want to treat it properly. My question is it ok to burn pump diesel which I think is # 1 or should I get a drum so I can get a # 2 Feul delivery (which I assume is home heating oil)as I am not able to purchase it in small Quantities. Any Info would be appreiciated.

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
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2004-03-18          80363

We don't get #1 here in Northern Nevada.... instead we get treated #2 (cold weather additives).... at the pump or from the home heating oil truck.

That said, if they are dispensing # 1 at the diesel pump, then the weather calls for it and it is good to go in my mind.

I do believe that anything passed off as diesel fuel these days needs an additive to run properly in our tractors.

I have a Deere (Yanmar) diesel and a Kubota Diesel I am feeding. I make sure whatever fuel I am using has a Cetane booster and addition lubricants for the injector pump.

They sure sound better, start better and smoke a whole lot less. It's a small price to pay for longer engine life. ....

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Wildman1
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 196 Chugiak, Alaska
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2004-03-19          80368

I started using PowerService and noticed easier starts and almost no smoke. Runs smoother as well.

Mark..what additives in what ratio are you using? I put 2oz of PS to 5gal diesel. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2004-03-19          80370

I've used Power Service on a year around basis for years. I can't remember the ratios off the top of my head, but I run it stronger in the winter. I've been using Soy Diesel for a couple years and still add it to that. I checked with Deere before using the Soy, they said they aproved it. They ran a test of using used cooking oil from fast food places in a city bus here where my son lives, far as I've heard it worked fine, but it smelled like fench fries. ....

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harvey
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Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2004-03-19          80375

Generally in this part of the country the dealers run a blended mix.

Most around here, during the cold, go 80/20 and as much as 50/50 #2 and #1.

If it was not blended it would not pump thru the strainers in the systems.

Most treatments if used according to Mfd are only about$.05 per gallon treating bulk with consentrates we are at about $.01.

Good luck with the new equipment ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-03-19          80386

I think most service station diesel is called #2 fuel, which is also called furnace oil. However, during the winter in cold climates service station diesel and home delivery for people with outside tanks is going to be closer to #1 fuel. #1 fuel is sometimes is called stove oil or kerosene.

I think most manufactures say that either #1 or #2 works in tractor engines OK but #1 produces a bit less power. I use fuel additives and agree with the comments made. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-03-19          80388

Wildman, right now I am running Power Service at 6/10th of an ounce per gallon (3.2 oz per 5 gallons) and I am running 50 gallon batches of fuel. To that 50 gallons I am adding 12 oz of 85 Plus.

I am looking for maximum Cetane boost and long storage life from the Power Service and hoping the synthetics in the 85 Plus will extend the life of my pump and injectors. The 85 Plus kicks up the Cetane too.

I am "high and hot" here and need all the power I can produce.

With this mix the Deere will give me a tiny, token puff of smoke on cold mornings and then runs smoke free no matter how hard I push it.

The Kubota does not smoke at any time. ....

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drbandson
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 25 Long Island,NY
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2004-03-19          80438

Thanks to all for the great responces. I will have to find a local source for diesel additive Powerservice comes up most often in posts. I have less than 10 hours on machine and I am looking over the manual to get together what I will need for the 50 hour service. I am probably going to go with Kubota lubricants. The dealer said they do not generally change the front axle or the trans fluid till next scheduled service, just the trans filters. My manual says it holds 53.9 qts YIKES$$$. I am wondering if I should replace it at 50 hrs. also should I use the Kubota UDT or the SUPER UDT. I am generally digging trenches and using loader occassionally And not in water. I was told not to go over 2000 rpms for 100 hrs. any insight or info would be appreiciated. Thanks again
....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-03-19          80439

If the manual says to change the fluid, change the fluid. Your dealer doesn't care as much as you about properly maintaining your machine. In fact the cynic might think that the dealer has a vested interest in seeing that your machine wears out early. Spending the money on fluids is dirt cheap insurance. ....

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drbandson
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 25 Long Island,NY
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2004-03-19          80440

Thanks kwschumm I figured that the manual sets up service intervals for a reason.
Although I have heard the same rec'd from other peoples dealers on this site. I will spend a little now for a longer tractor life down the road.
That is one good lookin machine almost to pretty to drive. Does the box blade from Frontier work well or have you seen others you might rec'd. ....

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DRankin
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2004-03-19          80446

Walmart carries Powerservice. ....

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kwschumm
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Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-03-19          80447

My feeling is that the manufacturer would be bragging about extended service intervals if they thought they could safely get away with it. During break-in there are metal particles of all sizes that get suspended in the fluids, some are caught by the filter but some are likely not. Changing the fluids is the only way to get most of that junk out of the system IMHO.

The Frontier BB has been great, well built and easy to use. My tractor thanks you for the compliment! The only reason it is so clean is because it gets so dirty. I can't make myself park it in the garage when it's covered with an inch or two of mud, and mud is all we have for 7-8 months of the year. ....

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Wildman1
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 196 Chugiak, Alaska
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2004-03-20          80452

Mark..where do you find 85 Plus? And I think I'll up the PS dose.

I changed all of my fluids at 50hrs. I went to Rotella synthetic and now have 103hrs and have used about 1/4qt of oil. The Deere used about 3/4qt the 1st 50hrs. I'm gonna change the oil/filter in the next 5-10hrs but do the trans at 200.

....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2004-03-20          80457

My theory has allways been that oil and filters are free compared to parts and labor, yes by all means follow the book and don't substitute a less expensive fluid that might not meet the specs. your tractor calls for. We usually change fluids in our CUT's on a shorter hour interval than the book calls for being they do a lot of short run type work and lots of times don't get fully warmed up. Frank. ....

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DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-03-20          80470

WildMike, The local NAPA Parts store carries the 85 Plus and if they are out I can get it from a gun shop down the road. It is great stuff. have you read the info on the web site? ....

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Wildman1
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Posts: 196 Chugiak, Alaska
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2004-03-21          80543

Mark..I did look up the stuff on the net and it looks like it compliments PS in areas that PS isn't designed for. Thanks.

BTW..I read an interesting post by Busboy about IDI diesels developing cracks in the pre-combustion chambers when using the higher temp thermostats. He said this was more of a problem with gensets and reefer engines 'cus they run to max at startup and temp spikes before the 'stat opens causes hotspots. Makes sense. I changed my 'stat to a 190 from the stock 160 due to lack of sufficient heat for the cab heater.

I warm up for 5min before engaging in heavy work and rarely run over 2500rpm. I wonder if I should go back to the 160 for heavy summer work? Cetane booster may also reduce the chance of hotspots. What's your take?

WildMikeee ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2004-03-21          80548

Wildmike; I totaly agree with your thoughts on starting a diesel under full load causing problems. I don't remember the exact years, but when GM started using the 350 block for a diesel and they turned out to be a total failure. I think they were an inherintly weak engine, but I allways though that not one out of a hundred people who bought them knew anything about properly warming up and cooling down a diesel engine. An example we had a local RFD mailman who grew up running diesel equip. bought up a half dozen or so of those old GM diesels that were still running when no dealer would take thm in on trade. I think he just recently used up the last one, he was getting a couple hundred thousand miles before they pooped out. Frank. ....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-03-21          80636

Getting back to the original question. Pump diesel in most case (except for in very cold regions) is #2 diesel. I suggest you buy the off road/farm diesel which will save you about 40 cents a gallon. It is #2 diesel as well. I use Power Service in the Silver bottle and John Deere Summer Formula fuel additive. ....

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DaveM
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 67 Southern Maine
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2004-03-26          81214

KW, I know the subject is Fuel Additive but your pictures enthralled me. Do you want to talk about #7? I've got some real hilly ground around my house as well and I've had some real eye openers. If it wasn't for my previous life in the military, flying and understanding weight and balance I probably could have gotten in some real trouble. I hope your machine wasn't to damaged ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-03-26          81235

Briefly, because my R4s got lousy traction in our clay soil I ended up in a depression. When I finally was able to back out of the depression the soil under the left side gave way causing a slow rollover. No real damage to myself or the tractor, but it sure was good to have a ROPS and a seatbelt.

Here's a link to the whole, sordid tale :) ....


Link:   I Hate My R4s thread

 
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DaveM
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 67 Southern Maine
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2004-03-27          81289

Thanks KW for the link. I will read your story later when I get the time. I'm off to take care of Saturday chores right now. ....

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realman21502
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 48 Maryland
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2004-04-04          82101

Here is an interesting link on Diesel Fuel vs Fuel Oil.

http://www.amghummer.com/Diesel/DieselFuel/about_diesel_fuel.htm ....

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lbrown59
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2004-09-09          96020


To fuel this debate I have a couple of questions.

1*I didn't see any thing in my BX 23 owners manual saying I should add anything to the fuel.
2*If the truckers don't need to treat the diesel fuel for their rigs why does it need treated for a tractor.
....

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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-09-09          96025

lbrown59,

I don't see any debating going on........just a good exchange of ideas, opinions, and good information......as it should be.

To answer your question. Good premium diesel should require NO additives by the user. However, not all diesel is produced and handled the same. Nor is it sold the same with respect to time and setting around in the storage tanks. For these reasons diesel can deteriorated and or be contaminated. Additives later added by the user can help to mitigate any potential issues with the fuel. The biggest issue with diesel in the USA is that the minimum cetane rating is 40 cetane. Most diesels prefer a higher cetane fuel and run much better off of it, thus the benefit from a centane boosting additive. Are the additives absolutely required?????? Absolutel NOT. But for the same reason we use synthetic oils, perform early oil changes and services to make our machines last longer and perform best, we (at least speaking for myself) use the fuel additives. In my opinion and experience, the cetane boosting additives substantially cut down on combustion noise which is quit considerable with a Yanmar diesel.

Most truck drivers don't use fuel additives primarily because they don't own the truck and could care less what they put in the tank as long as it burns and they don't get fined for putting it in there. ;O) I would venture that owner/operators may differ somewhat and use additives. Over the road truck diesels (at least the newer models) are now almost exclusively computer controlled and the ECM's for these engines compensate for a host of things among which is poor fuel quality.

Typically, fuel is formulated for use in geographic regions or areas and the additive package is tailored for that particular area. In extreme cold area's a fuel anti-gel/de-icer may be required, but normally those area's switch to #1 diesel fuel which is more or less a mix of kerosene and #2 diesel. In my opinion the two biggest benefits from adding additional fuel additive is #1 fuel system lubrication and #2 increased cetane rating. Good premium diesel fuel should already have a complete additive package that addresses all of these requirements among many other but I can't see how playing it safe can be of harm. ....

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lbrown59
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2004-09-09          96029

Chief :
Thank you for your good informative reply above to my questions.
I just want to make sure I do things right in regard to fueling my BX 23.
You cleared a lot of things up for me.Thanks Very Much.

I was just out and picked up the Power Service in the white bottle.
Anything else I need to go with it.?
Also I had no luck finding a water filtering funnel or a strainer funnel for other contaminants.
Where might I find these?
Thanks again






....

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lbrown59
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2006-04-28          128461

I recently purchased a new L48 kubota. I want to treat it properly. 1*My question is it ok to burn pump diesel which I think is # 1 or 2*should I get a drum so I can get a # 2 Fuel delivery (which I assume is home heating oil)
3*as I am not able to purchase it in small Quantities.
drbandson
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
1*Yes
2*Diesel and home heating oil are the same thing. Another name for home heating oil is fuel oil.
3*Why can't you buy it in small Quantities.

#1 and #2 are not 2 different things it is a winter and a summer blend of the same fuel ....

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Murf
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2006-04-28          128472

lbrown, I assume since the original post is now more than 2 years old the problem has been worked out by now, it was posted 2004-03-18......... ....

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lbrown59
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2006-04-28          128490


lbrown, I assume since the original post is now more than 2 years old the problem has been worked out by now, it was posted 2004-03-18........
**********
Murf : I'll go along with that but it may be helpful to a new member or visitor who see this thread for the first time. ....

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Murf
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2006-04-28          128494

You may very well be correct, but that is why there is a search feature on the board, to look through the archives. ....

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