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taishan 304a sd2100 engine

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bemike61
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2008-03-07          152004


i need help from any tractor mechanic or tech person out there.

fuel system type I

i had to replace a bad fuel line , new fuel line is on how do i get the air out? is there any maintenace on injectors or the injector pump? also if i crack the nut by the injector i should get fuel coming out if everything is working right?

other questions

how much oil and what type does the governor assembly hold, i see it has a little dipstick?

how much oil does transmission box hold, does it use sae 90 oil?

what is normal operating water temp, oil temp or oil pressure.

are there any useful websites for tech info or can you get a more detailed shop manual.

this tractor is 1986 ts-304a 4wd with loader.

thanks for any help.




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greg_g
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2008-03-07          152007


If you replaced a hose, I'm going to assume it was rubber. Rubber hoses are on the low pressure side metal lines on the high side. Anyway. Look for a small hand primer on the side of the injection pump assembly. It may look like the brass part in the photo below. Loosen the fuel filter about two turns, pump the hand primer till fuel spills out. Tighten the filter. Try to start the engine. If that doesn't work, you've got air in the hard lines (high side). We can fix that too, but lets work one side at a time.

The injection pump sump holds only a few ounces. There should be a drain plug; often underneath, sometimes on the side. Drain old stuff, flush with kerosene through the fill/vent, replace drain plug, refill to the mark on the dipstick (should only take a few ounces). I use full detergent ISO100 compressor oil in mine.

No idea how much the transmission holds. The answer to that and the SAE90 question depend upon whether or not this tractor uses UTF. Is there a separate sump for hydraulic fluid under the seat?

Normal coolant temperature will depend upon what thermostat is installed. Chinese diesel tractors typically run 70C or 80C thermostats. Oil temp should tyically should not exceed 100C, normal oil pressure may be as low as 0.05MPa (cold) and 0.4MPa (hot).

Don't count on ever seeing a shop manual - in English anyway.

//greg// ....

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bemike61
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2008-03-08          152020


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152007
If you replaced a hose, I'm going to assume it was rubber. Rubber hoses are on the low pressure side metal lines on the high side. Anyway. Look for a small hand primer on the side of the injection pump assembly. It may look like the brass part in the photo below. Loosen the fuel filter about two turns, pump the hand primer till fuel spills out. Tighten the filter. Try to start the engine. If that doesn't work, you've got air in the hard lines (high side). We can fix that too, but lets work one side at a time.The injection pump sump holds only a few ounces. There should be a drain plug; often underneath, sometimes on the side. Drain old stuff, flush with kerosene through the fill/vent, replace drain plug, refill to the mark on the dipstick (should only take a few ounces). I use full detergent ISO100 compressor oil in mine.No idea how much the transmission holds. The answer to that and the SAE90 question depend upon whether or not this tractor uses UTF. Is there a separate sump for hydraulic fluid under the seat? Normal coolant temperature will depend upon what thermostat is installed. Chinese diesel tractors typically run 70C or 80C thermostats. Oil temp should tyically should not exceed 100C, normal oil pressure may be as low as 0.05MPa (cold) and 0.4MPa (hot).Don't count on ever seeing a shop manual - in English anyway. //greg//
thanks greg
i do have a manual that came with this tractor, so i have some pictures i can look at. it was a rubber line i replaced. there was two types of fuel systems type I and II. type II has the prime pump you described, but the system i have has no prime pump at all, i was hoping it did. any suggestions. i tried turning over engine and crack nut that leads into injector but nothing came out.

so i know that i am not getting fuel, just need to remove air.

the guy i got this tractor from told me the rubber fuel was bad, it was worse than that. i just assumed that alot of air got in the system before i could change it out.


just to let you know there is one line rubber coming from fuel tank with a glass sediment bowl on the bottom, it then goes to the fuel filter, then a rubber line i replaced that goes from filter to injector pump, then two metal lines to the top of engine to the injector.

all rubber lines have what they call banjo eyelet fittings.

i will take any info you have to offer.
thanks

i will check on the trans info after i get the tractor running again.



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greg_g
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2008-03-08          152022


No problem, just takes a different technique. Since there's no hand primer, you'll just have to use the starter motor. As before, loosen the fuel filter. Make sure the valve above the sediment bowl is open (that lets fuel out of the tank). Put the tractor in neutral and set the brake. Crank till you get fuel spilling out the top of the filter.

If that works, we'll move on to priming the high pressure side. If it doesn't, tthere's a problem with fuel flow on the low pressure side

//greg// ....


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bemike61
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2008-03-10          152054


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152022
No problem, just takes a different technique. Since there's no hand primer, you'll just have to use the starter motor. As before, loosen the fuel filter. Make sure the valve above the sediment bowl is open (that lets fuel out of the tank). Put the tractor in neutral and set the brake. Crank till you get fuel spilling out the top of the filter.If that works, we'll move on to priming the high pressure side. If it doesn't, tthere's a problem with fuel flow on the low pressure side //greg//
sorry for delay. ok i do have fuel coming out of top of filter, like you said. while i was at it i drained old fuel out and put fresh in, so i know that wont be a issue later. so i am ready for the next step. thanks




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greg_g
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2008-03-10          152056


Very good. Verify that the fuel filter is snugged up, tractor again in neutral with brake set. Follow the steel fuel lines (hard lines) up to the fuel injectors. At each fuel injector you'll see a hex head collar. Loosen each a couple of turns, preferably with a line wrench. Crank the starter till fuel comes out. There may be bubbles first. Let them come out, wait till you see raw fuel. Tighten the hex collars.

Does that thing have a pre-heater of any kind (glow plugs? ThermoStart?) Does it have a decompression lever or cable? If so, now's the time to use it/them. Then see if the engine starts. If no, suspect fuel injector problems.

If no fuel at all comes out the hardlines, suspect injection pump problems.

//greg// ....


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greg_g
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2008-03-10          152057


Very good. Verify that the fuel filter is snugged up, tractor again in neutral with brake set. Follow the steel fuel lines (hard lines) up to the fuel injectors. At each fuel injector you'll see a hex head collar. Loosen each a couple of turns, preferably with a line wrench. Crank the starter till fuel comes out. There may be bubbles first. Let them come out, wait till you see raw fuel. Tighten the hex collars.

Does that thing have a pre-heater of any kind (glow plugs? ThermoStart?) Does it have a decompression lever or cable? If so, now's the time to use it/them. Then see if the engine starts. If no, suspect fuel injector problems.

If no fuel at all comes out the hardlines, suspect injection pump problems.

//greg// ....


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bemike61
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2008-03-11          152074


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152057
Very good. Verify that the fuel filter is snugged up, tractor again in neutral with brake set. Follow the steel fuel lines (hard lines) up to the fuel injectors. At each fuel injector you'll see a hex head collar. Loosen each a couple of turns, preferably with a line wrench. Crank the starter till fuel comes out. There may be bubbles first. Let them come out, wait till you see raw fuel. Tighten the hex collars. Does that thing have a pre-heater of any kind (glow plugs? ThermoStart?) Does it have a decompression lever or cable? If so, now's the time to use it/them. Then see if the engine starts. If no, suspect fuel injector problems.If no fuel at all comes out the hardlines, suspect injection pump problems.//greg//
the nut that i should loosen is the one on top of injector, do i loosen both injector nuts or one at a time. it does have something on the y- pipe that goes into the engine but i dont know if its a glow plug. it does have a decompression lever..

what is the purpose of the decompression lever and how often do you use it.

it will be wed before i can work on it again but i will let you know the results. thanks


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greg_g
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2008-03-11          152076


OK. Decompression lever first. It's connected to a device under the valve cover that opens the exhaust valves slightly. When valves open, compression cannot occur. When compression cannot occur, diesel detonation cannot occur. Short version, the engine won't start. But. Since there's no compression, the engine turns over easier. Less wear and tear on the starter motor and battery. Plus, cranking the motor over also rotates the oil pump. You start getting oil circulating BEFORE detonation actually takes place. Makes the engine last longer. Release the DEcompression system, the engine starts.

And yes, loosen both compression fittings (injector nuts). If one starts pumping raw fuel before the other, tighten it down and wait for the 2nd one to spew fuel.

Unfortunately, I can't decypher that a Y-pipe means. I can only guess you're talking about intake manifold(?) If so, that suggests a ThermoStart type pre-heater. If so, there should be either a push button on the dash (to energize it) or a HEAT (H) position on the keyswitch

//greg// ....


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bemike61
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2008-03-12          152107


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152076
OK. Decompression lever first. It's connected to a device under the valve cover that opens the exhaust valves slightly. When valves open, compression cannot occur. When compression cannot occur, diesel detonation cannot occur. Short version, the engine won't start. But. Since there's no compression, the engine turns over easier. Less wear and tear on the starter motor and battery. Plus, cranking the motor over also rotates the oil pump. You start getting oil circulating BEFORE detonation actually takes place. Makes the engine last longer. Release the DEcompression system, the engine starts.And yes, loosen both compression fittings (injector nuts). If one starts pumping raw fuel before the other, tighten it down and wait for the 2nd one to spew fuel. Unfortunately, I can't decypher that a Y-pipe means. I can only guess you're talking about intake manifold(?) If so, that suggests a ThermoStart type pre-heater. If so, there should be either a push button on the dash (to energize it) or a HEAT (H) position on the keyswitch//greg//
greg i was able to get the air out the way you said. i got the tractor running, thanks for your help.

i have not driven it much today but the clutch seems to need adjusting, would expect it to pull pretty strong. the guy i got it from said a mechanic had put in a new one about 2 years ago. sorry to pick your brain again any suggestions. i am going to look over manual tonight to see what i can do. thanks again




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greg_g
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2008-03-12          152110


Without any specifics as to what clutch issue you may be having, I can only recommend that you remove the inspection plate and check the gap between the clutch release fingers and the throwout bearing. The gap is adjusted by adjusting the length of the pull rod connecting the clutch pedal with the clutch lever. Shorten or lengthen till there's ~2mm gap between the finger tips and the bearing face.

//greg// ....


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bemike61
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2008-03-14          152150


Quote:
Originally Posted by bemike61 | view 152107
greg i was able to get the air out the way you said. i got the tractor running, thanks for your help.i have not driven it much today but the clutch seems to need adjusting, would expect it to pull pretty strong. the guy i got it from said a mechanic had put in a new one about 2 years ago.sorry to pick your brain again any suggestions. i am going to look over manual tonight to see what i can do. thanks again
i adjusted the rod connected to the clutch pedal and did not feel any distance. when at idle and clutch out and in gear it will sometimes move on level ground, but if you give more rpms it stops moving. i turned rod clockwise where you would see no threads, i did not think that having more threads showing was going in the right direction.

there is a bolt with a nut on it on the bell housing, that says in manual its for disengaging clutch, i did not touch that.

do you know of any mechanics who work on the side who could take a look at it for me. i am in the louisville kentucky area. thanks





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greg_g
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2008-03-14          152154


The bolt on the bellhousing is the pedal stop - to prevent you from kicking the pedal down too far. As such, it plays no role when your foot is off the clutch.

Did you actually look inside while you adjusted the length of that external pull rod? That's how you get the 2mm gap between the release fingers and the throwout bearing face. If they're touching, that's bad. The more they touch, the less you'll move.

But let's say the clutch is adjusted properly. That tractor almost certainly has a hi/lo range select lever. If it happens to be in the middle, it could put you in a neutral condition. If there's a shuttle shift lever, the same thing can happen if the lever isn't full forward or full reverse.

Although that said, you may have a creeper box instead of a shuttle shift. Is there a reverse on the transmission gear select lever? And if so, is there another lever below the dash maybe, that you don't know what it's for? If so, it could be a creeper box. That too needs to be either engaged in Hi or engaged in Lo, shouldn't be in between.

//greg// ....


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bemike61
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2008-03-14          152157


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152154
The bolt on the bellhousing is the pedal stop - to prevent you from kicking the pedal down too far. As such, it plays no role when your foot is off the clutch. Did you actually look inside while you adjusted the length of that external pull rod? That's how you get the 2mm gap between the release fingers and the throwout bearing face. If they're touching, that's bad. The more they touch, the less you'll move. But let's say the clutch is adjusted properly. That tractor almost certainly has a hi/lo range select lever. If it happens to be in the middle, it could put you in a neutral condition. If there's a shuttle shift lever, the same thing can happen if the lever isn't full forward or full reverse. Although that said, you may have a creeper box instead of a shuttle shift. Is there a reverse on the transmission gear select lever? And if so, is there another lever below the dash maybe, that you don't know what it's for? If so, it could be a creeper box. That too needs to be either engaged in Hi or engaged in Lo, shouldn't be in between.//greg//
thanks for the info. heres what i have its a 4 speed transmission 2 nd gear is straight inline with reverse being straight bach as in the h pattern, 1 st gear is over right and up. it does have a hi lo shifter left of the h pattern shifter. under the dash is i shifter the guy told me was for going from 2w drive to 4w drive i have played with all combo's of shifting with no effect on tractor. the 2wd to 4wd shifter is the only one that it does not seem like its doing anything. thats about all i know.
thanks


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greg_g
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2008-03-14          152160


Ok, sounds like that tractor has neither shuttle shift nor creeper box. You can also eliminate the 2wd/4wd select lever, it is unrelated to the clutch. But you haven't confirmed whether or not you actually looked through the opening in the side of the bellhousing to confirm a 2mm gap between clutch release fingers and throwout bearing face. Don't just glance in and check one. Rotate the clutchpack till you confirm that there's the same gap for each finger (does yours have 3 or 6 fingers)?

//greg// ....


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bemike61
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2008-03-14          152161


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152160
Ok, sounds like that tractor has neither shuttle shift nor creeper box. You can also eliminate the 2wd/4wd select lever, it is unrelated to the clutch. But you haven't confirmed whether or not you actually looked through the opening in the side of the bellhousing to confirm a 2mm gap between clutch release fingers and throwout bearing face. Don't just glance in and check one. Rotate the clutchpack till you confirm that there's the same gap for each finger (does yours have 3 or 6 fingers)?//greg//
i will check for the gap on all clutch fingers, it looks like it has three fingers. how do you rotate clutch to bring fingers to inspection opening. also what do you use to get a 2 mm gap and it looks like it will have to be at least 8 inches long to reach throw bearing.

i will be working on this saturday{tommorrow}.



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greg_g
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2008-03-14          152162


Well, 2mm ain't much. It's less than a tenth of an inch, so not much more than an air gap really. If you don't have feeler gauges that will reach in that far, maybe sneak a spatula outa the wife's kitchen drawer.

The clutchpack rotates with the crankshaft. So put a socket on the hex nut in the center of the cranshaft pulley (the one that turns the fanbelt). Turn the socket with a breaker bar to rotate the crankshaft clockwise. As the crank moves, so does the clutchpack. I'd recommend opening the compression release while you do this. Doing so will not only make turning the engine over easier, it will also prevent it from accidentally starting.

//greg// ....


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bemike61
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2008-03-15          152172


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152162
Well, 2mm ain't much. It's less than a tenth of an inch, so not much more than an air gap really. If you don't have feeler gauges that will reach in that far, maybe sneak a spatula outa the wife's kitchen drawer.The clutchpack rotates with the crankshaft. So put a socket on the hex nut in the center of the cranshaft pulley (the one that turns the fanbelt). Turn the socket with a breaker bar to rotate the crankshaft clockwise. As the crank moves, so does the clutchpack. I'd recommend opening the compression release while you do this. Doing so will not only make turning the engine over easier, it will also prevent it from accidentally starting.//greg//
ok greg here s what i have , with the inspection cover off i see three fingers touching throw out bearing when clutch pedal is not touched. when you press pedal all the way down it look like six fingers touch throw out bearing. so i think thats a normal operation of thia clutch.
in the manual there are two types of clutch type I and type II, this should does look like type II to me.

according to my book it has a auxiliary clutch driven disk assembly and aux clutch pressure plate, diaphragm spring,

main clutch pressure plate,main clutch driven disk assembly and clutch cover which the release lever spring attachs to..

also three of the release levers are for main clutch and other three are for auxiliary release lever.

i hope you can give me some insight.

why does this thing have a aux clutch.
thanks




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greg_g
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2008-03-15          152175


Three of the fingers release the main drive clutch, the other three release the PTO clutch (that's the aux). The three that are touching - shouldn't. Shorten that pull rod I told you about so that you get a gap between the "finger tip" and the bearing face. Now that I know which clutch you have, the actual spec for that gap is 0.15mm. The three PTO fingers should be 8.5mm farther away. In other words, when you first push in the clutch, the throwout bearing engages the first set of fingers. That disengages the transmission from the engine. That takes the first half of the clutch pedal travel. The second half of the clutch pedal travel pushes the throwout bearing into the PTO fingers. That disengages the PTO shaft from the engine.

Shorten the pull rod I told you about so that there's ~0.15mm gap between that first set of fingers and the bearing face.

Information relative to these clutch adjustments, should be in your tractor manual. That said, the translation from Chinese to English often leaves big question marks hanging all over the place.

//greg// ....


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bemike61
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2008-03-15          152180


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152175
Three of the fingers release the main drive clutch, the other three release the PTO clutch (that's the aux). The three that are touching - shouldn't. Shorten that pull rod I told you about so that you get a gap between the "finger tip" and the bearing face. Now that I know which clutch you have, the actual spec for that gap is 0.15mm. The three PTO fingers should be 8.5mm farther away. In other words, when you first push in the clutch, the throwout bearing engages the first set of fingers. That disengages the transmission from the engine. That takes the first half of the clutch pedal travel. The second half of the clutch pedal travel pushes the throwout bearing into the PTO fingers. That disengages the PTO shaft from the engine.Shorten the pull rod I told you about so that there's ~0.15mm gap between that first set of fingers and the bearing face.Information relative to these clutch adjustments, should be in your tractor manual. That said, the translation from Chinese to English often leaves big question marks hanging all over the place.//greg//
i shorten the rod as much as possible and there still is no change, it hardly rolls. i can see the clutch thru the inspection hole spinning. any other ideas. thanks



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chipuren
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2008-03-15          152188


If you find you need a new clutch, and if you have the 2 stage type, I have the complete assy in stock, otherwise I would only have the disk and possibly the diaphram spring. ....


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greg_g
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2008-03-15          152189


I am not getting the impression that you are setting that 0.15mm gap that I described. Don't let the long travel of the clutch pedal fool you. The mechanical advantage translates all that travel outside the bellhousing into considerably less travel inside. If you don't have everything adjusted correctly, the clutch can be rendered useless.

That's not to say the 2 year old clutch may already be burned out. But I'm still not convinced you're approaching the adjustment correctly. Have you found the clutch adjustment section in the operations/maintenance manual yet? And sorry, but can't help you with the Louisville question either. And I doubt you want to drive the extra 3 hours to bring it this far west.

//greg// ....


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bemike61
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2008-03-16          152193


Quote:
Originally Posted by chipuren | view 152188
If you find you need a new clutch, and if you have the 2 stage type, I have the complete assy in stock, otherwise I would only have the disk and possibly the diaphram spring.
i am still checking on my adjustments and have not ruled anything out as of right now. what is the cost of a complete assembly... and the cost of just the disk and diaphram spring.. how long does it take to receive parts from you. thanks ....


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bemike61
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2008-03-16          152194


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152189
I am not getting the impression that you are setting that 0.15mm gap that I described. Don't let the long travel of the clutch pedal fool you. The mechanical advantage translates all that travel outside the bellhousing into considerably less travel inside. If you don't have everything adjusted correctly, the clutch can be rendered useless. That's not to say the 2 year old clutch may already be burned out. But I'm still not convinced you're approaching the adjustment correctly. Have you found the clutch adjustment section in the operations/maintenance manual yet? And sorry, but can't help you with the Louisville question either. And I doubt you want to drive the extra 3 hours to bring it this far west.//greg//
greg i trying to get someone out here this week to check what i have done, dont want to tear this thing down unless i have to. thanks



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greg_g
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2008-03-16          152195


I don't understand "tear this thing down ". Nothing I've described so far involves separating the tractor. To achieve that 0.15mm gap I mentioned involves nothing more complicated than adjusting the overall length of the external clutch lever pull rod. The only thing you'd "tear down would be a cotter key, a washer, and a retaining pin.

About buying parts; I wouldn't recommend arbitrarily buying individual clutch components for a 22 year old TaiShan - without a guarantee from Chip that they're 100% compatible. And I'm not sure he's in a position to be able to offer that kind of guarantee. If in fact it turns out that you ACTUALLY NEED need clutch repair, I believe a whole new clutchpack would be the solution. Even then you have to determine - at a minimum - overall diameter, spline counts, shaft diameter

//greg// ....


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2008-03-16          152206


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152195
I don't understand " would be a cotter key, a washer, and a retaining pin.About buying parts; I wouldn't recommend arbitrarily buying individual clutch components for a 22 year old TaiShan - without a guarantee from Chip that they're 100% compatible. And I'm not sure he's in a position to be able to offer that kind of guarantee. If in fact it turns out that you ACTUALLY NEED need clutch repair, I believe a whole new clutchpack would be the solution. Even then you have to determine - at a minimum - overall diameter, spline counts, shaft diameter//greg//
greg can you call this i hope that you know the area code , hate to give out but need some more info 7628222 thanks ....


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2008-03-16          152209


If you want offline contact, I suggest you use personal message feature of this site; click on my member name (above the picture of my tractor), then click on Send Private Message

//greg// ....


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2008-03-17          152222


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152209
If you want offline contact, I suggest you use personal message feature of this site; click on my member name (above the picture of my tractor), then click on //greg//
you have to pay to be able to send private message, so i tell you thru email what i have done so far.

the adjusting rod that connects to the the clutch pedal , when i got this had no threads showing. so there was no way of adjusting it in any further. i took the adjusting rod off and used my hand to move the rod that goes thru the bellhousing, while the tractor was in gear i moved that rod back towards me or going to the rear of tractor to see if there would be any movement. it did start to move more than before, i took it out side for just a little drive and it still would not pull up on much of a grade or hill so thats where iam at right now. thanks
any thoughts



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2008-03-17          152223


Look at the other end of the pull rod for threads. Perhaps the rod was adjusted incorrectly in the first place, biased too much toward the forward threads and not enough towards the rear. Otherwise, it sounds like the previous owner botched the clutch replacement two years ago.

Look back inside the inspection port. Tell me if you count three release fingers or six. Then tell me if they're rounded at the tips, flat at the tips, or obviously damaged. And finally, shine a light on the throwout bearing. Tell me if you see any blue discoloration.

//greg// ....


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2008-03-17          152227


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152223
Look at the other end of the pull rod for threads. Perhaps the rod was adjusted incorrectly in the first place, biased too much toward the forward threads and not enough towards the rear. Otherwise, it sounds like the previous owner botched the clutch replacement two years ago.Look back inside the inspection port. Tell me if you count three release fingers or six. Then tell me if they're rounded at the tips, flat at the tips, or obviously damaged. And finally, shine a light on the throwout bearing. Tell me if you see any blue discoloration.//greg//
greg i got a tractor mechanic coming on tues to figure out what i have going on. i can tell that there is three fingers that look like that they are flat on the end, throw out bearing does not look like its discolored .i will know more on tues. thanks



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2008-03-17          152228


Sounds like a plan. Glad you found somebody close by. Tell the mechanic that those finger tips start out sorta round, then wear flat over time. Original thickness might be about 7mm, so that will let him judge how far they're worn down. Original thickness of the friction discs I'll estimate at about 12mm. The fact you see no hint of blue on the throwout bearing means it hasn't been overheated. They typically have a little hole in the side by the way - to put grease in once in a while - just in case you didn't know.

//greg// ....


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2008-03-19          152259


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152228
Sounds like a plan. Glad you found somebody close by. Tell the mechanic that those finger tips start out sorta round, then wear flat over time. Original thickness might be about 7mm, so that will let him judge how far they're worn down. Original thickness of the friction discs I'll estimate at about 12mm. The fact you see no hint of blue on the throwout bearing means it hasn't been overheated. They typically have a little hole in the side by the way - to put grease in once in a while - just in case you didn't know.//greg//
well i had mechanic out on tues , the clutch had no adjustment left, so i am going to start to take the tractor a part.
any suggestions or tips to watch out for. after i get it a part thats when i am going to order my parts to make sure i know everything i need. i am going to use this mechanic to put clutch back in so that i know it has all the right clearances and adjustments.

could you tell me all the spec's i need for installation or a place that i can get that info. i do have the manual and some info from that. thanks

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2008-03-19          152260


Well, my TS354C has a six finger clutch. The clutchpack adjustment specs will be different than those for yours. Those for mine are in the tractor Operations/Maintenance manual in the Adjustment chapter, transmission section - and also in the Adjustment appendix.

No way to tell until yours is removed, but it might be similar to the 3-fingered clutchpack used in 200 series Jinmas. If that picture link below doesn't show a clutch diagram, click the red X

But you shouldn't make any rash moves until such time as you see what exactly comes OUT of your tractor. At that time, you might want to contact Chip and see if the clutchpack he offered might be a direct replacement. And considering all the work that goes into splitting a tractor, it would be foolish not to replace the pilot and throwout bearings while it's split in half.

Alternatively, if the mechanic removes the clutchpack and determines there's some life left in the components - those Jinma specs might come in handy to readjust and reinstall yours.

//greg// ....

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2008-03-20          152292


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152260
Well, my TS354C has a six finger clutch. The clutchpack adjustment specs will be different than those for yours. Those for mine are in the tractor Operations/Maintenance manual in the Adjustment chapter, transmission section - and also in the Adjustment appendix.No way to tell until yours is removed, but it might be similar to the 3-fingered clutchpack used in 200 series Jinmas. If that picture link below doesn't show a clutch diagram, click the red XBut you shouldn't make any rash moves until such time as you see what exactly comes OUT of your tractor. At that time, you might want to contact Chip and see if the clutchpack he offered might be a direct replacement. And considering all the work that goes into splitting a tractor, it would be foolish not to replace the pilot and throwout bearings while it's split in half.Alternatively, if the mechanic removes the clutchpack and determines there's some life left in the components - those Jinma specs might come in handy to readjust and reinstall yours.//greg//
greg i got the clutch out here is what i found. the main clutch pressure plate where the the disk sits has a 1/8 th inch groove in it, i am thinking that this is suppose to be a smooth surface and the disk would lay flat on it.

next the main clutch driven disk does not look at all like tha auxiliary disk. the main disk has 1 inch by 2 inch pieces of clutch material, spread around disk there is seven of these littls squares on both sides of disk.

there is wear on the throw out bearing. and wear on all six release levers.

auxiliary disk looks like a regular clutch with material all the way around the disk on both sides. this disk and the other both measure 9 inches diameter.

main pressure plate looks normal other then wear on fingers.
auxiliary pressure plate and diaphragm spring appear to look normal wear ..

i am taking the unit to a clutch shop to see what can be used or needs to be replaced and if they have anything.

while i have it apart i want to do it right the first time , since it will be a long time before its done again.

i am looking at replacing most items including throw bearing.

a question about the release levers ,if everything is adjusted do all six fingers come just short of touching throw out bearing,,,, because when i took it apart only the main clutch levers touched the throw bearing,, the auxiliary levers where very far away until you pushed in the clutch pedal.


i got your picture of adjustment.

any other items, pictures, info ,shop data would help. the guy who looked at it was wanting a shop manual to help, i told him that was not going to be possible. thanks for the help and info.




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2008-03-20          152293


Quote:
Originally Posted by chipuren | view 152188
If you find you need a new clutch, and if you have the 2 stage type, I have the complete assy in stock, otherwise I would only have the disk and possibly the diaphram spring.
need to know if you have a complete clutchpak that would work on a taishan 304a 4wd tractor, dual clutch, series III connecting housing, also looking at throw out bearing #9688213, and pilot bearing in flywheel, i dont have a number for that.
do you have in stock and cost. thanks


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2008-03-20          152294


Yes, you can call me or jason at 479-705-2200. we should verify the number of splines and that you have 6 levers on the the pressure plate (3 for main and 3 for PTO clutch, if so it is the same clutch as used on the "C" series 3 and 4 cylinder tractors. It sounds like the clutch has been reworked before, someone relined with "buttons", sometimes these are made of materials that will wear the pressure plates faster than the facoty friction material (supposed to last longer). So the complete kit is probably best. ....


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2008-03-20          152300


I guess when you said THREE fingers before, you apparently couldn't see all six through the inspection port. The previous owner's clutch "repair" apparently didn't extend beyond replacing the main drive friction disc. One of the rivets on that rebuilt friction disc apparently gouged one of the pressure plates. Or else the OE disc did it, and the guy didn't bother replacing the pressure plate. Like I said, a botched job. I'm also guessing that - after taking it apart to replace the main drive friction disc - the clutchpack itself was was simply screwed back together without benerit of a bench alignment.

With worn fingers, almost no friction disc, and a grooved pressure plate - I strongly recommend replacing the entire clutchpack and both bearings. I've just completed a bench alignment on what might be the same clutchpack. So ignore the diagram I linked to, it's a 3-finger unit, and has to be aligned differently. If Chip's clutchpack turns out to be the right diameter and spline count, we can pick this back up if/when you obtain a new clutchpack.

If you are considering a rebuild, it may be a waste of time. Even if the rebuilder could get the parts, I'm almost positive that Chip can sell you the entire clutchpack for less money.

//greg//
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2008-03-23          152337


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152300
I guess when you said THREE fingers before, you apparently couldn't see all six through the inspection port. The previous owner's clutch "repair" apparently didn't extend beyond replacing the main drive friction disc. One of the rivets on that rebuilt friction disc apparently gouged one of the pressure plates. Or else the OE disc did it, and the guy didn't bother replacing the pressure plate. Like I said, a botched job. I'm also guessing that - after taking it apart to replace the main drive friction disc - the clutchpack itself was was simply screwed back together without benerit of a bench alignment. With worn fingers, almost no friction disc, and a grooved pressure plate - I strongly recommend replacing the entire clutchpack and both bearings. I've just completed a bench alignment on what might be the same clutchpack. So ignore the diagram I linked to, it's a 3-finger unit, and has to be aligned differently. If Chip's clutchpack turns out to be the right diameter and spline count, we can pick this back up if/when you obtain a new clutchpack.If you are considering a rebuild, it may be a waste of time. Even if the rebuilder could get the parts, I'm almost positive that Chip can sell you the entire clutchpack for less money.//greg//
i ordered a clutchpak from jason and chip, should get it mid week and then start on install. i wanted a new clutch versus a rebuilt if that was possible...
i see in the manual that the hydraulic fluid is 90 sae.
i was at pep boys and saw 2 containers the other day, one said 80w-90w gear oil. the next one just said tractor hydraulic fluid, no numbers.

what should i use or do you recommend since i had to drain fluid during the break apart of lines. i drained out about 15 quarts of fluid. thanks



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2008-03-23          152339


Something's not right about that statement; I've never heard of any "SAE 90 hydraulic fluid". Of course, the Chinese manuals are known to lose a lot in translation. You think maybe it means SAE90 GEAR OIL ?

I'm curious why you drained hydraulic fluid though - does that mean you have an engine-driven hydraulic pump? Both mine have PTO pumps - meaning no hydraulic lines running for and aft. And 15 qts seems like a lot of hydraulic fluid, or do you have a loader? I forget.

So I'm still not sure if your tractor has a separate hydraulic sump, or if the hydraulics share fluid with the transmission and differential. To help resolve that, look behind/beneath the seat and see if you can find a fill plug and/or fill vent. If so, that suggests you fill the hydraulic sump (lifter box) separately from the trann/diff.

//greg// ....


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2008-03-23          152347


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152339
Something's not right about that statement; I've never heard of any "SAE 90 hydraulic fluid". Of course, the Chinese manuals are known to lose a lot in translation. You think maybe it means SAE90 GEAR OIL ? I'm curious why you drained hydraulic fluid though - does that mean you have an engine-driven hydraulic pump? Both mine have PTO pumps - meaning no hydraulic lines running for and aft. And 15 qts seems like a lot of hydraulic fluid, or do you have a loader? I forget.So I'm still not sure if your tractor has a separate hydraulic sump, or if the hydraulics share fluid with the transmission and differential. To help resolve that, look behind/beneath the seat and see if you can find a fill plug and/or fill vent. If so, that suggests you fill the hydraulic sump (lifter box) separately from the trann/diff.//greg//
this tractor does have a front loader with a engine driven pump. the lines run from front pump to bottom of rear of tractor. to separate tractor had to disconnent lines and drain fluid. there is a dip stick in front of seat, to the rear of hi lo shifter, also have a dip stick next to the shifter area on the trans box cover. with two dip sticks i thought it was not connected, but the fluids looked similiar, one drain plug underneath.

i typed wrong. manual says transmission box, final drive belt pulley. summer no.40 diesel engine oil, winter no.30 engine oil. recommendation sae 90.
while i was at it i was going to put all new fluid in, just wanted to put the right stuff in.
i am thinking sae 90 gear oil is what i use.wondering if it was for both areas since they are so close. i feel the large amount of fluid was from the long line to pump.




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2008-03-23          152348


OK. The 15 qts you drained almost certainly then included that from the loader circuit. Your tranny and rear diff should still contain fluid, as draining them is not required when splitting the tractor at the bellhousing.

Two dipsticks in front of the seat are typical; one for differential housing, one for transmission - both now seemingly take gear oil (that's the SAE90 bit). But you didn't mention one behind the seat - that should be where your put in hydraulic fluid.

If the owner's manual doesn't identify it as a hydraulic device, perhaps it calls it a lift box. Because if you put gear oil in your hydraulics, you're likely to generate a whole brand new set of problems.

//greg// ....


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2008-03-25          152392


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152348
OK. The 15 qts you drained almost certainly then included that from the loader circuit. Your tranny and rear diff should still contain fluid, as draining them is not required when splitting the tractor at the bellhousing. Two dipsticks in front of the seat are typical; one for differential housing, one for transmission - both now seemingly take gear oil (that's the SAE90 bit). But you didn't mention one behind the seat - that should be where your put in hydraulic fluid. If the owner's manual doesn't identify it as a hydraulic device, perhaps it calls it a lift box. Because if you put gear oil in your hydraulics, you're likely to generate a whole brand new set of problems.//greg//
greg there is a housing under seat with a dip stick, i an not able to move seat to check level yet.

i should get new clutch tues or wed, i will start to work on it thurs. any shop manual info or pictures or tips from you would help. i will make copies for references to look at while i work on it.

i was in tractor supply the other day and saw mineral 90 sae oil. ever heard of this .

i am assuming that what i use is going to be 80-90w gear oil unless you think i need something different.
thanks for all your help so far.




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2008-03-25          152398


That mineral oil is unknown to me, you'd best stick with gear oil. You can't hurt anything with 80W90. If you decide later it's too thin in the Kentucky heat, you can switch over to 85W140.

AW32 hydraulic oil goes into that fill/vent under the seat. If you decide that's too thin, you can go to AW46. Make sure it's hydraulic oil though - not machine oil.

Let me know when the clutchpack arrives. I hope you remembered the two bearings also. Once you confirm that it's actually the correct replacement, we can get back together and I'll give you the adjustment specs and procedures.

//greg//


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2008-03-25          152405


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152398
That mineral oil is unknown to me, you'd best stick with gear oil. You can't hurt anything with 80W90. If you decide later it's too thin in the Kentucky heat, you can switch over to 85W140.AW32 hydraulic oil goes into that fill/vent under the seat. If you decide that's too thin, you can go to AW46. Make sure it's hydraulic oil though - not machine oil.Let me know when the clutchpack arrives. I hope you remembered the two bearings also. Once you confirm that it's actually the correct replacement, we can get back together and I'll give you the adjustment specs and procedures.//greg//
got the clutch today everything seems to match up to the old one. i going to have a little delay , the throw out bearing i got was the right one, but it looked like something fell on it and caused it to become sort of a oval shape. i called and talked to chip he is going to ship out another one.
i can still put in clutch and make adjustments .
looking forward to get this thing back going. thanks

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2008-03-25          152423


Good. To start verifying/adjusting the clutchpack alignment, get a piece of 3/4" plywood about 18" square and cut a 2" hole in the center. Set it on a LEVEL workbench, and set your new main drive friction disc on it. Note that the splined center is longer on one side than the other, the long side goes in the hole in the plywood. You may have to shim the plywood, so that disc will lay perfectly flat. The plywood is going to simulate your flywheel, and must be perfectly flat. So put a spirit level on it - and adjust the shim height as required.

Set the clutchpack on top of the disc, clutch fingers up. Use all your upper body weight to push the clutchpack down on the disc, that will simulate bolting it to the flywheel. If the fingers are loose, this will push them up. They may already be in place, so don't be dismayed if nothing moves.

The first critical measurement checks the PTO release finger height. There are three bolts through the clutchpack that are showing you hex nuts. Each bolt has two nuts; the bottom one is for adjusting, the top one is for locking. Remove the three locking nuts. You're going to measure the distance from the top of each of the three remaining nuts - to the surface of the plywood flywheel. The spec is 101.5 millimeters.

It's a difficult measurement with conventional calipers, so I made my own gauge out of wire. I cut off about six inches of fairly stiff (uninsulated) wire, and hammered it as perfectly straight as possible. I put a 90 degree bend about 3/4 inch from one end. I then measured from the inside of that bend towards the other end of the wire, and cut at the 101.5mm mark.

That's enough to start with, let me know when you get that far.

//greg// ....


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2008-03-26          152452


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152423
Good. To start verifying/adjusting the clutchpack alignment, get a piece of 3/4" plywood about 18" square and cut a 2" hole in the center. Set it on a LEVEL workbench, and set your new main drive friction disc on it. Note that the splined center is longer on one side than the other, the long side goes in the hole in the plywood. You may have to shim the plywood, so that disc will lay perfectly flat. The plywood is going to simulate your flywheel, and must be perfectly flat. So put a spirit level on it - and adjust the shim height as required.Set the clutchpack on top of the disc, clutch fingers up. Use all your upper body weight to push the clutchpack down on the disc, that will simulate bolting it to the flywheel. If the fingers are loose, this will push them up. They may already be in place, so don't be dismayed if nothing moves. The first critical measurement checks the PTO release finger height. There are three bolts through the clutchpack that are showing you hex nuts. Each bolt has two nuts; the bottom one is for adjusting, the top one is for locking. Remove the three locking nuts. You're going to measure the distance from the top of each of the three remaining nuts - to the surface of the plywood flywheel. The spec is 101.5 millimeters.It's a difficult measurement with conventional calipers, so I made my own gauge out of wire. I cut off about six inches of fairly stiff (uninsulated) wire, and hammered it as perfectly straight as possible. I put a 90 degree bend about 3/4 inch from one end. I then measured from the inside of that bend towards the other end of the wire, and cut at the 101.5mm mark. That's enough to start with, let me know when you get that far.//greg//
greg i wanted to just review. 3/4 inch plywood , 2 inch hole, long end goes in plywood, press down on wood, to see loose fingers.{ at this time all fingers are at same height, when i pulled it from box}
use wire, bend end ,measure inside bend down to other end should be 101.5mm { which converts to 3.99 inches}.
use that wire to measure each main clutch release lever.

so dont worry about auxiliary clutch release levers.

do i need to find a mm way of measuring, or is converting to inches ok. i will be working on it thurs and get back to you for more details.
thanks











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2008-03-26          152467


OK, four inches is close enough. But if you're going to own a Chinese tractor, it's probably a good idea to start buying metric tools. Matter of fact, any adjustments you may have to make on that clutch should be done with metric wrenches.

You interpreted correctly, nearly to the end. The 101.5mm measurement is on the aux clutch (PTO) bolts. We haven't gotten to the main drive clutch bolts yet. You didn't mention the spirit level either. Make sure you've got one handy.

But all six fingers should NOT be the same height. That's why we're going through this bench alignment procedure. We'll first set the aux clutch fingers to that 101.5mm spec, and fine tune them with the spirit level. After that, the main clutch fingers get offset from the PTO clutch fingers by 8.5mm

//greg// ....


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2008-03-27          152478


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152467
OK, four inches is close enough. But if you're going to own a Chinese tractor, it's probably a good idea to start buying metric tools. Matter of fact, any adjustments you may have to make on that clutch should be done with metric wrenches.You interpreted correctly, nearly to the end. The 101.5mm measurement is on the aux clutch (PTO) bolts. We haven't gotten to the main drive clutch bolts yet. You didn't mention the spirit level either. Make sure you've got one handy.But all six fingers should NOT be the same height. That's why we're going through this bench alignment procedure. We'll first set the aux clutch fingers to that 101.5mm spec, and fine tune them with the spirit level. After that, the main clutch fingers get offset from the PTO clutch fingers by 8.5mm//greg//
greg i have the plywood cut and leveled it. i put disk down with long shaft thru wood and clutch assembly on top of that. i pushed down with force and none of the release levers moved. i have a way of measuring mm and i cut a piece of metal with a L at the top and cut to 101.5 mm from inside of L to bottom. i took off three nuts and measured from top of plywood to top of three adjusting nuts . the measurment i got was in the range 0f 105mm to 106mm.
do i need to tighten nuts down to the 101.5 mm mark on my piece of metal. i am also ready for the next process

thanks




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2008-03-27          152486


Yes, that's the way I did my last one anyway. Adjusted those three nuts until they were 101.5mm away from the simulated flywheel.

Next is to level the three associated fingers. This is a little tricky. I used a short piece of 1x4 and set it on a pair of PTO fingers. I set my spirit level on the 1x4, noting if there was an off-level condition. I moved the 1x4 to the next pair, then the next pair. If one of the three is too high - or too low - adjusted the associated nut. It's important that all three eventually touch the throwout bearing at the same time with the same force.

When you're satisfied that you've fine tuned the PTO fingers, it's time to move on to the main drive fingers. The other 3 adjusting bolts are turned from underneath, and once again the spirit level comes into play. You want all three main clutch fingers to be 8.5mm HIGHER than the PTO fingers you just adjusted. This may tighten up the inside (main) friction plate, so it's a good idea to center it NOW.

After that, set the 1x4 on two of the three main clutch fingers. Perform a similar leveling process as you did above, but this time from the underside. When the 3 fingers are level, then you have to set the 8.5mm gap. For that simply set the throwout bearing on the three main drive fingers. Fashion something to use to gauge the gap. I used the grip end of an 8.5mm drill bit as a feeler gauge. If you don't have metric bits, that's between 5/16" and 11/32".

From there it's a simple matter of fine tuning those 3 fingers until you've achieve the desired 8.5mm distance away from the PTO fingers. In the end, you should be able to put the spirit level on top of the throwout bearing and see 360 degrees of center bubble. Fine tune as required.

That's the bench verification/alignment that I employ. Lurkers are encouraged to critique, just in case there's something I missed.

//greg// ....


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2008-03-27          152499


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152486
Yes, that's the way I did my last one anyway. Adjusted those three nuts until they were 101.5mm away from the simulated flywheel. Next is to level the three associated fingers. This is a little tricky. I used a short piece of 1x4 and set it on a pair of PTO fingers. I set my spirit level on the 1x4, noting if there was an off-level condition. I moved the 1x4 to the next pair, then the next pair. If one of the three is too high - or too low - adjusted the associated nut. It's important that all three eventually touch the throwout bearing at the same time with the same force.When you're satisfied that you've fine tuned the PTO fingers, it's time to move on to the main drive fingers. The other 3 adjusting bolts are turned from underneath, and once again the spirit level comes into play. You want all three main clutch fingers to be 8.5mm HIGHER than the PTO fingers you just adjusted. This may tighten up the inside (main) friction plate, so it's a good idea to center it NOW.After that, set the 1x4 on two of the three main clutch fingers. Perform a similar leveling process as you did above, but this time from the underside. When the 3 fingers are level, then you have to set the 8.5mm gap. For that simply set the throwout bearing on the three main drive fingers. Fashion something to use to gauge the gap. I used the grip end of an 8.5mm drill bit as a feeler gauge. If you don't have metric bits, that's between 5/16" and 11/32".From there it's a simple matter of fine tuning those 3 fingers until you've achieve the desired 8.5mm distance away from the PTO fingers. In the end, you should be able to put the spirit level on top of the throwout bearing and see 360 degrees of center bubble. Fine tune as required.That's the bench verification/alignment that I employ. Lurkers are encouraged to critique, just in case there's something I missed.//greg//
greg i hit a snag i can only get two out three fingers adjusted on the pto. do you have any idea what i can do. the one thats out is off by a quarter of one inch. i would really have to tighten that nut down to even come close , but then i would have the disk plate uneven. that one finger looks like it was made from a different mode, it does not have the metal on the tip like the other two.
so i did not go any further until i get your thoughts.

could i live with that one being off 1/4 inch.

the main clutch fingers look ok or of the same type.
thanks



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2008-03-27          152504


It's VERY important that the fingers contact the throwout bearing simultaneously and with equal pressure. Therefore they ALL must be adjusted for center bubble on the spirit level.

Remember when I told you to use your upper body weight to push the clutchpack against the simulated flywheel? Do it again. Do it as many times as necessary to get the sets of three level AND the gap between the sets adjusted. You might even have to back off on the other two and start over again.

//greg// ....


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2008-03-28          152512


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152504
It's VERY important that the fingers contact the throwout bearing simultaneously and with equal pressure. Therefore they ALL must be adjusted for center bubble on the spirit level. Remember when I told you to use your upper body weight to push the clutchpack against the simulated flywheel? Do it again. Do it as many times as necessary to get the sets of three level AND the gap between the sets adjusted. You might even have to back off on the other two and start over again.//greg//
i started over and was able to get the pto levers all level. i used a 1x4 to check level. the nuts are in the 101.5 range. i then moved on to the main levers i adjusted them using a drill bit 11/32 above pto levers. i then adjusted each one till they were level and still maintaining the 11/32 gap. i did the 360 degree check and everything is level and center. so i am ready for the next step. i put all locking nuts on and tighten. thanks


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2008-03-28          152514


Excellent. Now make sure the main drive friction disc is centered. If your other adjustments are correct it should be just lightly held in place, and you should be able to center it by hand.

While you're waiting for the replacement TOB to arrive, you could replace the pilot bearing. You could also remove the original TOB. To do that, release the sliding collar and take it - bearing and all - to your work bench. Tap off the old bearing. If force is required, apply it to the bearing - not the collar. The bearing is a throwaway, but the collar will likely go back on the tractor.

With the TOB removed, inspect the sleeve onto which the TOB rested. It should be smooth, and ready to have the TOB tapped in place. If it's been damaged by the old bearing - usually seen as one or more grooves cut into what should be a smooth sleeve face - it should be replaced.

//greg// ....


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2008-03-29          152561


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152514
Excellent. Now make sure the main drive friction disc is centered. If your other adjustments are correct it should be just lightly held in place, and you should be able to center it by hand.While you're waiting for the replacement TOB to arrive, you could replace the pilot bearing. You could also remove the original TOB. To do that, release the sliding collar and take it - bearing and all - to your work bench. Tap off the old bearing. If force is required, apply it to the bearing - not the collar. The bearing is a throwaway, but the collar will likely go back on the tractor. With the TOB removed, inspect the sleeve onto which the TOB rested. It should be smooth, and ready to have the TOB tapped in place. If it's been damaged by the old bearing - usually seen as one or more grooves cut into what should be a smooth sleeve face - it should be replaced.//greg//
i got the new bearing and took old one off. the sleeve that the bearing was on was in good shape. i put new bearing on. i also replaced pilot bearing. you said i should be able to move main clutch disk, did you mean when i apply some pressure to the main release levers. i will be ready for the next step.
thanks




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2008-03-29          152563


If that's what it takes, then yes - take a little pressure off by depressing the release fingers. You can see the tan edge of the friction material when you look at the clutchpack from the side. When it's 360 degrees flush, you're centered.

From here, mount the clutchpack on the flywheel - taking care to center the PTO friction disc as well. That makes it easier to get the splined drive shafts through. Folks with a better equipped shop than mine have (or make) clutch alignment tools for this job. But if you don't have one, note that the inner shaft is smaller. It should slide straight through the main friction disc, then continue forward.

Begin the process of pushing the two tractor halves back together. When you feel the inner shaft strike the PTO friction disc, engage the PTO lever and turn the PTO stub from the back of the tractor. Unless you were dang lucky and got them to line up by chance, it should only take a fraction of a turn for the splines to mate. Hopefully you're doing this with a helper, because it helps to push and turn at the same time.

Continue to push the tractor together. The outer shaft will then likely strike the inner disc. Put a socket on the driveshaft pulley to turn the engine slightly. This too should only take a fraction of a turn for the splines to line up.

I think you should be able to take it from there. Unless you run into problems with any of the above, the last thing to do after reassembly is the external clutch adjustments

//greg// ....


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2008-03-29          152568


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152563
If that's what it takes, then yes - take a little pressure off by depressing the release fingers. You can see the tan edge of the friction material when you look at the clutchpack from the side. When it's 360 degrees flush, you're centered. From here, mount the clutchpack on the flywheel - taking care to center the PTO friction disc as well. That makes it easier to get the splined drive shafts through. Folks with a better equipped shop than mine have (or make) clutch alignment tools for this job. But if you don't have one, note that the inner shaft is smaller. It should slide straight through the main friction disc, then continue forward. Begin the process of pushing the two tractor halves back together. When you feel the inner shaft strike the PTO friction disc, engage the PTO lever and turn the PTO stub from the back of the tractor. Unless you were dang lucky and got them to line up by chance, it should only take a fraction of a turn for the splines to mate. Hopefully you're doing this with a helper, because it helps to push and turn at the same time.Continue to push the tractor together. The outer shaft will then likely strike the inner disc. Put a socket on the driveshaft pulley to turn the engine slightly. This too should only take a fraction of a turn for the splines to line up. I think you should be able to take it from there. Unless you run into problems with any of the above, the last thing to do after reassembly is the external clutch adjustments//greg//
planning on getting back together on monday, i will let you know how it goes. thanks for all your help and coaching.

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2008-03-30          152572


Word of advice to facilitate final bell housing bolt hole alignment. The front end is mounted on a pivot assembly. If for some reason the engine moves on that pivot, the bolt holes on your two tractor halves are not going to line up. I assume you've already blocked the front tires. In addition, you should also drive wooden wedges in between the engine and the front axle housing - one on either side of the pivot point. That will lock the front half in place to avoid misaligning all those bell housing holes when you close up

Oh, and before mounting the clutchpack on the flywheel face, make sure there's no surface damage that could tear up the PTO friction disc. Then ensure that the correct side of the friction disc is facing the flywheel (same direction as on your plywood flywheel simulation).

//greg// ....


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2008-03-31          152615


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152572
Word of advice to facilitate final bell housing bolt hole alignment. The front end is mounted on a pivot assembly. If for some reason the engine moves on that pivot, the bolt holes on your two tractor halves are not going to line up. I assume you've already blocked the front tires. In addition, you should also drive wooden wedges in between the engine and the front axle housing - one on either side of the pivot point. That will lock the front half in place to avoid misaligning all those bell housing holes when you close upOh, and before mounting the clutchpack on the flywheel face, make sure there's no surface damage that could tear up the PTO friction disc. Then ensure that the correct side of the friction disc is facing the flywheel (same direction as on your plywood flywheel simulation). //greg//
i have a question before i get started. when i took off throw bearing assembly it had what they call hooked springs one on each side of bearing seat, with a screw on top of to hold it in place.
to me it looks like the spring should hook over the bottom of clutch release fork and then put screw in top to hold it on. when i took it off it slid right off, but that does not tell me that it was not installed wrong to begin with.
i just dont want to take it back apart for such a minor little thing.. this hooked spring looks like the a piece of metal in the shape of the letter J and screw is in top of leter J.
i will not go any further till i hear back from you.


i do have the wheels blocked and engine blocked also.clutch facing flywheel with long shaftto front of tractor, flywheel was in good shape. thanks





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2008-03-31          152634


Since your tractor is about 20 years older than mine, I can only tell you how mine went back on. Obviously the TOB is tapped onto it's seat. By the way - did you pack those two bearings before you put them in place? They typically arrive from the parts room pretty dry (and loose).

Anyway. The TOB is on the collar, the collar slides over the tube in the center. Behind it is the clutch fork which is connected (eventually) to the clutch pedal. Pushing the clutch pedal pushes the TOB into the clutch release fingers. So. The idea is to position those J-shaped spring clips in a manner that attaches the TOB collar to the clutch fork. My collar had two little ears that lined up with the forks. There were threaded holes in the ears. It took some manipulating - here's another place a helper comes in handy - but the little screws through the clips hold the forks to the ears on the collar

//greg// ....


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2008-04-01          152648


Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_g | view 152634
Since your tractor is about 20 years older than mine, I can only tell you how mine went back on. Obviously the TOB is tapped onto it's seat. By the way - did you pack those two bearings before you put them in place? They typically arrive from the parts room pretty dry (and loose).Anyway. The TOB is on the collar, the collar slides over the tube in the center. Behind it is the clutch fork which is connected (eventually) to the clutch pedal. Pushing the clutch pedal pushes the TOB into the clutch release fingers. So. The idea is to position those J-shaped retainer springs in a manner that attaches the TOB collar to the clutch fork. My collar had two little ears that lined up with the forks. There were threaded holes in the ears. It took some manipulating - here's another place a helper comes in handy - but the little screws through the springs hold the forks to the ears on the collar//greg//
greg i got the J clips on. i know now that the clips were not installed right, it would have taken me using a screw driver to remove throw out bearing assembly, instead it just slid right off. i have it going my way now and should be able to get alot done on wed. took care of bearings. thanks




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2008-04-07          152822


Quote:
Originally Posted by bemike61 | view 152648
greg i got the J clips on. i know now that the clips were not installed right, it would have taken me using a screw driver to remove throw out bearing assembly, instead it just slid right off. i have it going my way now and should be able to get alot done on wed. took care of bearings. thanks
greg just wanted you to know that everything went back together well. i adjusted the clutch throw out bearing 2-3mm from the release fingers. all fluids back to there level. its like night and day the way it drives now. thanks for all your help and guiding me thru this process. i hope if i need any other help i can ask you or you know someone who can. thanks





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2008-04-07          152823


You're very welcome. And just for future reference, I found the spec that demanded the spirit level for those fingers. In sets of threes, there should be no more than 0.15mm deviation among finger height.

The other thing might be a temporary noise from the throwout bearing. I used a bearing packer on the last one I did, and apparently over-packed the bearing. It squealed briefly for the first dozen or so times I used the clutch. But as soon as it warmed up and slung out the excess grease, the noise went away permanently. If you hand-packed yours, it's probably a non-issue.

Good Job !!

//greg// ....


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