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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-03-12          79689


I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that I need to get a welder and learn to weld. What's a good way to learn? There are books and videos available - Can anyone recommend any of them? The local community college offers classes, but the next ones don't start until August sometime.



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plots1
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2004-03-12          79693


books and video's will give you a good idea, but hands on is the only way to learn . get your self a nice mig and start melting things togather. practice practice. ....


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BillMullens
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2004-03-12          79699


Practice is the best way to learn. If you buy a new welder, the instruction booklet will get you started. Once you learn to run a bead, you'll quickly learn what good and bad welds look like. Be careful if you get a "little" MIG, they are notorious for producing good-looking welds that sit on top of the metal (not enough penetration). I still prefer a stick welder for farm use (anything more than sheet metal) but that's just me. I set my MIG up for aluminum, and have made a couple of nice diamond plate toolboxes. Cool.
The Lincoln website is a good resource. This link takes you to the articles section; look under the "How to" tips pulldown box for some beginner tips.
I've got several books, it is easy to become obsessive about welding knowledge. I'll try to find a couple of my favorites and post the titles if you are interested.
Great hobby. After years of trying, I can do a decent-looking vertical weld about half the time.
Have fun,
Bill ....


Link:   Lincoln articles

 

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kwschumm
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2004-03-12          79701


After reading here I would only buy a 220V welder, but I'm a little reluctant to buy without having an idea of what to look for. Of course without one it's a little hard to practice.

Bill, thanks for the link. If you get a chance I'd be interested in knowing what books you would find useful for a novice.
....


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shortmagnum
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2004-03-13          79735


Ken, This is another case where a good dealer could be important. I have been talking to a guy at Praxair. It's a dealer for industrial gasses and welding equipment. Right now I'm looking at a Miller 210 amp mig. What I like about this place besides the price is that both times I've talked to people there they have encouraged me to call ahead and they will demonstrate the welder AND show me some techniques.

My last project was a grapple for loading logs (see picture #1 & #2). For that I used a Century AC/DC stick welder ($350) and it worked well. BUT, I have major health concerns about the smoke. I was so covered in soot by the end of the night that I know I must have breathed in plenty of it.

I have used a smaller 100 amp Century mig for years, primarily for autobody work (about $350 with tank). For up to 1/8 inch thickness it works great but I now have the need for something that will handle 1/4 inch so I'm looking at the Miller ($1200). ....


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AC5ZO
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2004-03-17          80136


Ken,
Until a few years ago, stick welders were all you ever saw on farms. MIG is easier to learn and use. But, in general, if you only get one welder and it is used for general purpose welding, I would still recommend a stick welder. You also don't need to get into gas bottles, regulators, etc if you start out with stick.

My first welder was a Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC. It was not expensive and it will weld anything except light sheet metal. MIG is far superior for sheet metal. MIG is also more convenient to use than stick. But, eventually I added a manual TIG torch to the Miller Thunderbolt and welded even more delicate stuff than I could do with stick. Now I have a shop with five or six welding power supplies and that old Miller Thunderbolt is still there.

As others have said, practice is the only way to learn welding, but a good mentor or course at a local tech school will get you off to a good start.

Unfortunately, most welding power supplies cannot do all types of welding. For stick and TIG you need a constant current power supply. For MIG you need constant voltage. ....


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shortmagnum
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2004-03-17          80141


I have to agree with AC on the stick welder for a first and possibly only unit. Just make sure there is good ventilation or a strong exhaust fan when you use it. The same holds true for a gasless MIG. I would spend a little more for an AC/DC unit rather than a cheap AC only stick welder.

Also, have fun. It's really gratifying to fabricate a nice project. Dave ....


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kwschumm
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2004-03-17          80143


Thanks for the advice guys. I like the fact that stick welders seem to be cheaper than mig units as well. Maybe that's just wishful thinking... ....


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Blueman
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2004-03-17          80145


I expect to hear how it turns out for you! I also want to learn to weld...expecially after "speaking" with many of you who can make and repair many of your own farm implements! ....


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Chief
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2004-03-17          80148


Ken, stick welding is a VERY fine and difficult art. My friend who I help out with welding projects, the latest of which was my 5'x 8' trailer for my tractor uses a Hobart Iron Man 210. He also has a DC stick welder which he uses for very thick metal welding and welding in the field away from line power. I have been helping him with a tilt bed project for his Freightliner and he has been able to weld 3/8" channel iron very effectively with the Iron Man 210. A Miller 251 would allow you to weld upto 1/2 metal but I think it would be overkill. You can always make multiple passes. I personally like the Miller and Hobart models but I am sure the Lincoln and others work well too. ....


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AC5ZO
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2004-03-17          80149


I think one of the problems with MIG is that it is pretty easy to make a good looking poor quality weld. I am not saying that all guys using MIG are making poor welds, but as a novice it would be easier to make a weld that was not as strong. As a general rule penetration will be better with stick. Any type of welding requires training and practice to do well.

I will go to my MIG welder, first, for most any welding job, but my welding power supply will provide well in excess of 250 amps and I mix my own gases, so I always have the right "brew" available to weld what is at hand. Even though I have a good set of equipment available, I recently did some welding on 1/2" plate to hold up a self supporting 82 ft radio tower. These are life critical welds. Because of the critical nature of these welds, I did test pieces with MIG and stick. I used stick, because I KNEW that the penetration would be there and that the welds would be good. (The test pieces showed better penetration with stick.)

It was a PITA to chip slag out of the weld to make multiple passes, but I felt that the extra work was necessary to assure that this structure would never come down in even the highest winds. With stick you need to prepare the joint area, use the right size rod and proper power setting from a book, and with a minimum amount of training, you will make good welds. (MIG welds will look better for most novice welders, however.) ....


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itsgottobegreen
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2004-03-17          80155


Find somebody who does welding and see if you can have them teach you the basics. It probly only cost you a case of beer. Or look at a local community college. Most have a welding class for people who weld as a hobby.

Now for stick welders the easiest way to learn is to find youself a really old timer who was a welder. They will teach you all the tricks to a stick welder. Its much harder than it looks. For mig welder a little practice and you will be just find.

Also welding is easyer the better the welder is. The little 110v welders will drive a new welder nuts trying to get a good weld. S0 look at the Miller welders then look at the rest. I have a Miller 210 w/3035 spoolmate. It got all the goodies of its big brothers. I love it. I have to wait until next year for a Miller AC/DC tig and stick welder. ....


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yooperpete
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2004-03-17          80165


The biggest problem I've always had with stick welding is stricking an arc to get started and drop the hood. With the new auto shade hoods life is much easier. Growing up on the farm we always had a stick welder. My father built allot of stuff and was always welding. He didn't pay much attention to ventilation although it was either just outside the barn or in the drafty barn shop.

My father got Parkinson's disease at about 60 years old. No one could ever figure out how or why. Many doctors said a flu virus went through in the early 20's and figured that was the cause of it. Since my dad has been gone, I've seen TV commercials from lawyers presenting a lawsuit against companies selling welding rod. They suspect that welding fumes potentially caused Parkinson's.

I'm the first to admit that I a terrible welder. I can make some nasty looking stick welds but they hold since penetration is good. I'm lucky in that whenever I need something welded, I get the guys at the shop to do it for me. A little bartering goes in and I let them use some of my stuff in turn for welding, fab or machining work.

The best thing is a mentor like was said or instruction at a local trade school or community college.

Parkinson's is a terrible disease. I'm very concerned about my health with regard to this issue since I was a welding fixture for soo many years as a kid. My dad burn my socks clear off of me several times and I got yelled at if I moved.

With the newer welding equipment I can make some beautiful but worthless welds like was posted before. If I were getting started, I would practice on some junk material. If you have a local scrap iron place, get some steel and just start welding. Put it in the vise and try to break the welds. After a while you will be able to see first hand how much a weld can hold and see the difference between good and bad welds.

If I were getting started, I'd buy some tanks to cut and braze, a stick welder and either a MIG or TIG, a real good vise and a big anvil. (You need to be able to heat and beat) I'd practice by starting to make some welding jigs, etc. and other things for around the shop. ....


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shortmagnum
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2004-03-17          80166


Ken, along with the welder you'll want something to cut the steel. Other than a hand hacksaw the least expensive options are a band saw or a chop saw. If you don't mind the extra cut time the band saw makes for a more relaxing and quiet experience. The chop saw is MUCH faster and will make more complex cuts but is terribly messy and loud. The chop saw is also good for cutting masonry. Both of them can cost less than $200 new. I thought I would sell my band saw when I bought the chop saw but I still use it much of the time if I'm not in a hurry.
Dave ....


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itsgottobegreen
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2004-03-17          80168


Chop Saws are good for making straight cuts. The blade flexs to much when trying to cut angles. A horizatal band saw does better at angles. If you are going to buy a good one look at ellis saws. But they start at $2200. I would look to have one (can be seen every monday night at 10PM on OCC on discovery channel). The cheap band saws and chops saws are in the $195 to $225 range. I have a 14" dewalt chop saw with a 1/4" thick blade from a K-12 rescue saw. It doesn't flex as much and avaible at Home Depot for $8. Instead of the $15 dewalt blade. ....


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blizzard
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-03-17          80169


Ken,
You might check with your local welding supply company, or an Agway that's tuned in to farmers. I know Agway used to give courses( discussions) and my local dealer currently does. They are scheduled frequently.
Otherwise, look at the lincolnelectric site. There's a heap of info there, even a bunch of projects, and you can order 'Arc Welding Instruction for the Beginner' for $5.00 as well as other books and videos.
I really recommend the Lincoln AC-225 for a starter. Its inexpensive (well under $300 for the kit ) and will run all the electrodes you need to do basic repairs and fabrication. If you find welding is not for you it should be easy to sell, if you find welding to be your 'thing' you will buy more sophisticated equipment, but I'll bet you keep the AC-225!
With 4-1/2 grinder, slag hammer, scrap metal, and some 6011 and 7018-AC
rod you can have a real blast learning!
Good Luck,
bliz ....


Link:   LincolnElectric

 

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2004-03-18          80240


After seeing three local fellows in their mid fiftys have heat attacks in the last two weeks, they all survived so far thank God, and I'm close to ten years older than them I've decided to move ahead a little faster on my retirement weld shop project. I'm sort of a brand loyal freak so I'd like to stick with Jet brand equipment. The dealership has been there probably 50 yrs before Jet was ever heard of, and allways treated me right. Anyhow, I'd like to get a shear, either the Jet PS 1652 pneumatic or the HS 1652 Hydraulic. Do any of you have one of these models, or have any knowledge about them, I've never seen one other than the catalog. I've got plenty of air to operate the air model, but is there a reason the hydraulic is better? If my memory is correct it seems that the air model is about 1,000. less money. Any opinions positive or negative would be apreciated. Thanks, Frank. ....


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Captain B
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2004-03-18          80278


I was in your postion not too long ago. Unless you have a friend who will look over your shoulder, take a welding course. Most voc ed high schools hold night courses. As to MIG versus stick--if you are going to work on farm/tractor projects an AC/DC stick welder is my recommendation. An entry level MIG welder won't have the capability to do the thicker stuff (3/16 to half inch)that you will want to work on from time to time. Of course, if money is no object then you can get a large MIG machine. Bottom line: take a welding course before you invest. ....


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kwschumm
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2004-03-18          80282


I'm looking for welding courses now, and really want to know a little more before buying. The comment about needing a big MIG machine to do 3/8 to 1/2 inch stuff has me curious. How big a MIG machine would you need to weld stock that thick? ....


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shortmagnum
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2004-03-18          80287


Ken, the Miller website (link below) shows a 251 (single phase) or 300 amp (3 phase) welder should handle 1/2" in one pass. I'm afraid to ask about the price.
Dave ....


Link:   MIller MIGs

 

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kwschumm
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2004-03-18          80296


A google search found one for around $1750 at cyberweld. I may do better if I shopped more but that's too rich for me right now. Classes first! ....


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AC5ZO
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2004-03-18          80309


I have a PowCon welder that will do 1/2" and it was over $2000. I have had it for over ten years. The PowCon uses 480/240 three phase, but it will run on single phase. The peak current ratings go down using single phase power, however.

FWIW, you can weld 1/2" with any good stick welder like the Millers and Lincolns for $300 or less. One hint on all welders is to not cut corners on welding electrodes or welding wire. Buy good, brand name welding electrodes and it will make your life and learning to weld a lot easier.

Yooperpete, good electrodes might help with your sticking problem. Though the humidity is exceeding low where I live, I do remember that electrodes that are exposed to high humidity for an extended period of time do not work as well as electrodes with dry flux. You might try drying your electrodes in the oven for a while. I really like the autodarkening lenses on the new shields. ....


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Trakorb
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-03-18          80314


I have a nice AC/DC Miller 220V welder that I'm not using and would be happy to figure up a reasonable price if you like. Also, there is a great booklet that would go a long way to helping you. I can get the name, but it's for sale at Home Depot in the welding section. It covers all types of processes. Just don't go buy one of the small Migs like a 135 or such, it won't weld the thicknesses you need.

....


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kwschumm
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2004-03-18          80320


I'm interested in your welder. Specifics would be great, model number, how old, etc. Keep in mind I don't know what I'm looking for so any info would be great. Thanks for the tip on the H.D. welding book, I'll check it out. ....


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blizzard
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2004-03-18          80321


Ken,
Though the Miller 251 is a fine production machine, you can make very excellent welds with a much less expensive stick welder.
There are other advantages as well:
1) Less maintenance, no chance of the wire jamming, no need to replace a whole roll of wire and maybe the feed rolls when you change metals.
2) A very wide choice of electrodes for sheet metal, dirty metal repair, alloy steel, pipe, aluminum, cast-iron, stainless, hard-surfacing etc.
You will find economical smaller packages of types you want to 'try out', or don't need much of.
3) Simple to set up, grab your equipment, set the amperage for the electrode, weld.
No gas bottles to mess with.


Most welding is not 'rocket science', but just practice in controlling the electrode and 'puddle' of metal. I would think you'd be far ahead to buy an inexpensive stick welder and get welding, rather than wait months for a school.

bliz
Here's a link for you to the Army Welding Manual, you can read it online or download the .pdf files to a directory and use Acrobat Reader: ....


Link:   Army Welding Manual

 

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kwschumm
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2004-03-18          80322


Thanks, blizzard, a stick welder seems to be the concensus. Since I have 220V in my garage there's no reason not to get a 220 as far as I can tell. If I ever need to do sheet metal I can always buy a small MIG for that work.

Thanks also for the link the the Army welding manual. I suppose there's enough info out there that I could teach myself, I just need to be able to identify good and bad welds. Appearance isn't as important although I generally dislike sloppy work. ....


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AC5ZO
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2004-03-19          80393


Ken, I don't want to overload you, but I do have some other links for learning to weld. They are from a variety of sources. The Lincoln site seems to be the most complete from a technical standpoint. The Army site from a previous post is also good.

Here is an introductory site. ....


Link:   Aussie Welding

 

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kwschumm
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2004-03-19          80396


Thanks, Michael. I think this thread will be a good reference for folks who want to weld so the more good links the better. ....


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DennoAce
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2004-03-19          80416


Well, having done plenty of metalwork myself I have to chime in on this one...sorry if I'm repeating advice:

- Get a Lincoln or Miller AC/DC (worth the money for DC option IMO) stick welder first, a nice little MIG later.
- If you have a welder or even if you don't, you have to also have in my opinion a torch setup. In fact, I bought a torch before my welder (waited for a deal on a used Lincoln). You can do anything with a torch, including brazing which in some cases is preferrable to welding. You can cut, heat, bend, etc. You should be able to walk away with an oxy/propane setup (use the same bottles as your grill gas..works just fine and is cheap) for well under $400. Airco and Victor make nice stuff. Buy a small oxygen bottle outright for $100 or so an you own it for life with no lease contracts, just need to exchange/refill. ....


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BillMullens
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2004-03-19          80426


I was just thinking along these same lines. No matter what you get to weld with, you're gonna need something to cut metal with.
Torches, chop saws, bandsaws, even angle grinders will work. I built my 14' utility trailer using just a 110 welder and a 4" angle grinder to cut the metal. Over the past few years I've accumulated torches and a chop saw. Maybe someday a band saw...
Good luck!
Bill ....


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itsgottobegreen
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2004-03-20          80472


When i bought my miller 210w/3035 spoolmate. Its rated for 3/8" but it handle 1/2". Its only at the 6 notch on the power control for 3/8". I have done some 1/2" at the 7 notch and got full pentration.

I also bought a victor ranger two torch with bottles and cart for $435. Normally this goes for $550 to 600. I got it as part of the package deal with the welder. If you get a big welder you need a torch. I have used the torch for more jobs than the welder. Bending and cutting. I haven't used it to weld yet because i misplace that nozzle somewhere. ....


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blizzard
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2004-03-20          80474


Ken,
You mentioned earlier wanting some examples of welds.
If you haven't seen enough in the links, look at my pics#18,19,20 for some examples.
Are you Overloaded yet?
bliz ....


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kwschumm
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2004-03-20          80475


Thanks, blizzard, those are helpful pics.

Overloaded? Yep, but like learning anything if by plugging away at it the knowledge will take hold. I'm sure I'll be referencing this thread and the links here for awhile during this period. ....


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kwschumm
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2004-03-20          80522


Is there something special about a metal cutting chop saw, or could a guy do fine with a metal cutting blade on a miter saw? ....


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BillMullens
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2004-03-21          80557


As I remember, the speeds (rpm) are considerably different. I don't have a miter saw, so I never researched it much. The chop saw works great, though people have told me that a bandsaw is faster and doesn't throw sparks. A reciprocating saw (Tiger saw, etc) works well, too.

Bill ....


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blizzard
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2004-03-21          80560


I've cut a lot of metal with an old 7-1/2 inch circular saw, so you could cut metal on a miter saw with no problem EXCEPT you're going to get a lot of sparks and abrasive material flying around that could be dangerous and cause a lot of wear to a relatively expensive tool. A 14" chop saw can be found for under $150.00, and is portable enough so cutting can be done outdoors. Consumer grade chop saws work best on lighter material, under 6" wide and 1/4" thick, but that covers most steel shapes used for home/repair projects. If you have to cut a strip off a long piece, use a torch, or some other means.
My inexpensive chop saw runs at 3900 RPM, so the speed at the edge of the 14" abrasive blade is higher than most wood saws.
Good Luck on your project,
bliz ....


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plots1
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-03-21          80592


A plasma cutter sure would be a kool tool to go along with your new welder,I'm trying to get one now but the wife looks at me as if I'm from MARS when I mention it???? ....


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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2004-03-21          80594


Don't forget you can Air-Arc cut with a stick welder and an air-compressor with the right kit. For example: a gas torch will not cut stainless, only makes a mess.

My personal welding priority list:
1.) Torch set (welding, brazing, cutting, everything you need)
2.) Stick welder-- 220v ac/dc, best you can afford (you can add a Mig and/or Tig head to it eventually)
3.) Small Mig for sheetmetal
4.) Plasma cutter

Remember the electrical needs, Lots of amps!! Been doing professional metalworking as a journeyman machinist for 10 years. Not a professional welder, but done more of that than I care to remember. ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-03-21          80595


I've got a dedicated 220v circuit in the garage that was sized for a freezer. Should that work? ....


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blizzard
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 282 Central Maine
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2004-03-21          80602


Ken,
Outch, freezers don't take much amperage.
You might get bye on a 40A range or dryer circuit, but I think I have a 60 Amps to my 250A AC/DC box.
bliz
ps I tried creating a skeleton homepage, when you get a second I'd appreciate it if you'd just try accessing it, let me know if it's viewable.
thanx
....


Link:   test_website

 

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BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 649 Central West Virginia
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2004-03-21          80608


My Lincoln 225AC recommended a 50 amp circuit.
Bill ....


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kwschumm
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Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-03-21          80618


Yep, it's only a 20 amp circuit. Rats.

Bliz, your web page is working just fine! ....


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loghouse95
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 87 missouri
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2004-03-21          80635


able to acess your web page with no problems, you must have some very cold winters there lol ....


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blizzard
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 282 Central Maine
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2004-03-21          80652


Thanks for the feedback Ken + LogHouse,
Now all I have to do is get some better pics.....
G'night,
bliz ....


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itsgottobegreen
Join Date: Oct 2003
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2004-03-21          80656


My miller 210 only uses a 30 amp circuit. That what they say i should use. ....


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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
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2004-03-22          80675


Ken I am sure you have lots more info than you probably want or wanted. However ever I feel a need to dump in a little more for thought.

1. Run a sub panel into your garage/shop at 100 amps. That will give you more flexibility.

2. Do a minimum of 50 or better yet 60 amp to your welder.

3. CHECK WITH a local "WELDING ONLY" supply. They will have tips and tricks. They will show you the basics... You can find some smokin deals on used equipment. Example I bought a Linclon DC 250 machine that is $3000 new for $750. It is MIG, TIG and stick ready. The current is so smooth I have run 1/16" rod to fix sheet metal up to 5/32 doing the wedge on my splitter. They will also have smaller welders. You can also rent some to try out. Used MIG modules are less than 1/2 new prices.

4. Air compressors and other larger tools will also thank you for the good solid power supply.

Have fun ....


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Cpt.Dave
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 38 Merrimack,NH
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2004-03-22          80706


I just ordered a reconditioned Lincoln stick welder, AC225S, from Weldingmart.com. Full 3 year warranty,delivered for $238.80. Now I just need to find an instructor.
Cptdave ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2004-03-22          80709


If there's room in your yard to drop a Super Cub in will I volunteer to teach you a few basics......

Best of luck. ....


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Cpt.Dave
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 38 Merrimack,NH
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2004-03-22          80713


Flying or welding basics?? ....


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Murf
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2004-03-22          80721


Welding, I gave up on trying to 'convert' rotor pilots years ago...... LOL ....


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Cpt.Dave
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 38 Merrimack,NH
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2004-03-22          80780


I hope welding is easier to learn than hovering. I'll keep you posted.

Cptdave ....


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Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2004-03-22          80783


The hoverin' is easy. The touch down autorotations are what take a little work. ;o) ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2004-03-23          80821


You think hovering in a rotor is tough, try it using only vectored thrust from a big fan.

Then try to drop it gracefully onto the rolling, pitching deck of a flat-top......

I'll take a rotor over terra firma any day.

No wait, floats over a trout filled lake....ahhh, life IS good.

Best of luck. ....


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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2004-03-27          81343


Murf: Would that be your Super Cub strip right next to your house in your pic #1? How about a couple of pics of the Cub too?? (I WAAANNNNTTT ONE!!) ....


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Murf
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2004-03-29          81488


AV8R, no thats not the Cub strip, the strip is out of the picture across the street.

I have the cub at the farm for the winter, we have a heated hanger big enough for the whole family fleet. I will look, I may have some pictures I can scan.

The Cub will likely be sold to my cousin this summer since I am putting a Murphy Super Rebel in the air this summer and I have been told that I am only allowed to keep one. If I 'sell' it to my cousin then I get to keep it, hehehehe.

If you get yourself a Cub be sure to do the 180hp conversion, the 1500 fpm climb is a hoot, and the 5 second lift-off on floats is a great way to get out of small lakes, or big ones full of Jet-Skiis and boats.

Best of luck. ....


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jeff r
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 428 burton. michigan
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2004-03-31          81661


I bought a Hobart 225 AC Welder when my brother claimed his Miller 225 AC after a 5 year stay in my garage. A 220 volt welder for welding flat for the home occasional welder is all 95% of us need. With 5 hours practice you can get GOOD on the vertical. I have welded just about everything steel and have found that 6011, 6013, low hyd 7018AC and 7014 rods will do just about anything in steel you can think of. Check out the close up of a 7014 weld on my tractor's grill guard in my pictures. I doesn't get any better than that. When you stop and think about it, why do guys get mig welders other than to weld light sheet metal? I have no problem at all welding 16 guage with 6013 rod and well adjusted heat. I will tell you the reason and it is because they can't strike an arc and get a good bead and haven't the time to practice. A Mig represents an expensive short-cut and most often they make a mistake and get a too small of a Mig (120 volt) and get themselves in trouble with good looking beads and poor penetration on too thick a metal. A bad looking 6011 bead is ten times better than a good looking Mig that holds like window caulking. Stop and think about it. What is the longest weld you will make? individual welds 4 inches maybe 6 long... 10 times a year? The stick may be slower but spending a minimium of 600 bucks for a GOOD 220 volt Mig for short welds as a hobby welder is tough to justify financially. 6013,7014, 7018AC electrode is considered to be "Granny" or "contact" rod. That means the arc happens up in the center of the flux so you keep electrode in contact with metal being welded. "Granny" means that your grandmother can weld with it. 6011 is a deep penetration rod for dirty steel that you have to maintain your arc distance. Too much and you have slag all over too little and you have a "sticking electrode problem". Practice makes perfect with a stick welder guys. 7018AC rod has to be stored in a sealed container or in absorbs moisture and won't be worth a crap. If you are unsure put the 7018AC rods in a cheap toaster oven for a couple hours. 7014 is my favorite rod with 6011 and 6013 a close second. The 70 number of the rod is the tensile strength in thousands----70 means 70,000 tensile strength. So a 70 rod has a higher strength than a 60 rod. A chop saw, SAWZ-ALL with a metal blade and an angle grinder are mandatory accessories. ....


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blizzard
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2004-03-31          81700


JeffR,
Excellent summary of what to get for a welder!
7014 & 7024 put down a lot of metal and make some PRETTY welds if the metal is clean and fit-up good.
bliz ....


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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-04-04          82116


Hi guys
Just had to chime in with a recent story from last week at work. My boss who seems to have done everything LOL in his past life and who is as cheap as they come bought everything we need to weld alum. with our wire feed welder.
Sounds ok except only one tool maker has any real experiance with Alum. welding. (now for a rip on me,) My biggest problem used to be flipping the helmet down and stiking an arc, no laughing, I am a tool and die maker not a profesional welder! Most of us weld good enough to get by and a few of us had been certified (at one time)me being one of them but that was over 12 years ago at anouther place and time. Anyway, I told him to buy us a few flash helmets and he almost freaked a few years ago!!! WE NEVER HAD(or needed) THOSE!!! he said as he handed me a $69. flash helmet. LOL. That same day I spent an hour fixing the pivot that broke. It has never worked right at all but beggers cant be choosers and my other option is buying my own. (I have to buy all mu own tools and not welding helmets so that is not going to happen) Last week he was totally amazed that no one could get a decent alum. weld except for one guy. He said to all of us, "why can he weld good and you guys cant" LOL. With that comment I cut that guys weld apart, polished it and showed it to him. I think we ALL need training I said!!! With that he bit the bullet and asked me for my helmet!!! ROTFLMAO as I gave it too him. the first time he put it on, it hit him in the front of the neck when he moved. He fought it for 5 min. before turning to me and saying that my helmet stunk! LOL. Then he took anouther guys and started welding, about three time he stopped. Then he took it off and said, give me an old fashion helmet, I cant see anything with this. Too bright!!! Long story shorter, after his feeble attempts at welding failed he told us to wait until he can get someone in that can fix the welder (that obviously was not working properly) and show us how to use it for Alum. (A DAH!!!) that is what started all of this, I had asked him along with anouther guy if we could get some company paid training for Alum. He had said NO WAY!!! you shouldnt need that! Its easy.
I just couldnt help but tell you all my welding story. I am sure that with the right settings (and I think that is most of our problems) We can get OK with the new welder in time, but just to make sure, My buddy I work with and myself have decided to take a course at the local Tech. college this fall and then practice our butt off every chance we get. Thanks for all the helpfull advice here.
Tom ....


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itsgottobegreen
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 329 Mt. Airy, MD
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2004-04-10          82692


Alum. welding is a pain. I have a spool gun. Everyone i talked to said you need a lot of practice, before you know what you are doing. I ether burn throught or not enought. TIG is the only really way to weld alum. ....


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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-04-12          82832


Green,
MIG will do fine on Aluminum. As you say, training and practice are the keys. Nobody should expect that welding is only about the equipment. You need a spool gun to do a lot of aluminum welding on a MIG system. Otherwise you will spend too much time sorting out kinked wire around the feed rolls when the friction exceeds the column strength of the MIG wire.

I just cannot agree that TIG is the only way to weld aluminum as you said. In some ways, it may be easier to learn, but the proper handling of the filler rod and torch is not as easy as some think. Whichever technique that you choose, MIG or TIG, you have to practice to become an accomplished welder and proper training can shorten the time till you make your first good weld. ....


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FerolO
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 6 Holton Kansas
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2004-04-18          83569


I use a large 220v Miller daily at work, its a mig, and I can only speak good of it, I have an older lincolin stick welder, not sure of the model and a clarke 130 mig here at home,I got the little clarke for doing auto-restoration, but have found that I use it more often than the stick welder, the 130 works off of 110v power, I got it as a "kit" / package deal at Orschelns for $299.00, it came with the welder,cart,2 spools of wire, helmet, etc. everything but the bottle for gas, however it will work fine without gas with the "flux core" wire.
I have used it for all types of metal, light and mid gauge up to 1/4 inch.
Check with your friends / neighbors and see if they have a welder that you might try and see what you are comfortable with.
If you get a wire welder, you might want to keep a pair of wire dykes handy at first...I did, until I got able to run it fairly well, I read the owners man, and watched the video that came with it, then got some scrap metal and started practicing. Im no "expert" but thus far I have not had a weld fail. ....


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tomrscott
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 96 Newberg, Oregon
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2004-12-28          103078


Anybody know where the Army Welding link went? It seems to be no longer linked. Did anyone download this that could email it to me?

Thanks! ....


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