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agentorange
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 117 Pacific Northwest
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2004-03-03          78625


During my high-rise construction years I did a lot of stick welding. All AC buzz box stuff until the companies started to by the AC/DC equipment. As I recall, ran a lot of 6013, 7018 rod. A little mud-rod from time to time as well.
I would like to have a little 115vac wire feed machine. Probably not doing anything over .25" mild steel but would like to do some aluminum. I'm seeing the next step up from the old weldpak 100's are the 135 class units. Hobart and Lincoln seem to be the main players in my category.
I know that a couple steps up from this gives you heavier-duty parts and such. Will I need them? Won't use it all that much and extended weld times will be few. Will get a set of bottles and a torch rig to accent my "fab" ideas.

Anyone using the 135 machines I speak of? How are they treating you?

thanks -ao





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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-03-03          78630


I don't have one myself, but a very good friend of mine does. He restores old cars as a hobby and says he would be lost without his little mig machine.

I have had him do some sheet metal welding for me over the years and I must say it does do a VERY nice job, there is usually absolutely no grinding or finishing required before painting.

Best of luck. ....


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agentorange
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 117 Pacific Northwest
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2004-03-03          78631


Upon further review: I see that the Clarke 130EN model from Welding Depot (pkg#8) seems to be a nice comparable to the above-mentioned Lincoln/Hobart rigs. Better pricing too. I'm going to assume that this is due to a lesser known name maybe? Out here on the west coast we are not to as familiar with Clarke. I'm assuming that it is Clarke Mfg., forklifts and such. Pennsylvania?
I'm also going to assume that this "135" number is a max output rating in amps?
I sure assume a lot don't I.

tks -ao ....


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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2004-03-03          78633


I have an older Lincoln that I have used for years. It is probably a 120. It has had no problems at all. It welds well. I do mostly steel and stainless. Most of the welding has been solid wire with shielding gas, but I have also used flux core with it. The small lincoln wire welder actually does a better job with 0.023 steel wire when welding very thin stuff than my big wire welder.

I have welded aluminum with it. Technically it has enough power, but you really need a good spool gun if you are going to do much aluminum. The aluminum wire is difficult to "push" through the cable from the main unit. So, aluminum has a tendency to buckle and fail to feed. You can minimize this by keeping the cable fully extended and straight away from the welder. The friction goes up if you bend the cable. A spool gun "pulls" the wire through the cable and/or has a small spool and motor drive in the torch.

Now I know that someone is going to say, "you don't need a spool gun" which costs almost as much as the welder that you are buying. The point is that you CAN do aluminum with the conventional setup, but you will wish for more if you do very much of it. Your satisfaction will depend upon how much aluminum you need to do. Flexibility will be limited.

These rigs work fine for steel. CO2 gas works for most steel. You need Argon if you are going to weld SS and aluminum. ....


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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2004-03-03          78700


I am not sure that the 135A will do 1/4 steel. I believe they recommend the 150A.
The other manufacturer of the small machines is Miller. I have used the larger commercial Millers and liked them. I am not sure about the smaller rigs but the price is comparable. ....


Link:   Miller Migs

 

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agentorange
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 117 Pacific Northwest
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2004-03-04          78726


Thanks for input.
have heard that once you get the wire feed concept, you never go back. I'm thinking that as much control as possible with feed and heat settings is probably the key. The aluminum tip is a good one due to it's very nature. I'm researching the Clarke models right now.

-ao ....


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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-03-04          78813


Wirefeed welding has its place, but I would not say that "you never go back." I prefer my wirefeed welder for most things, without a doubt. I have to use stick and chip the slag sometimes, because that is what is required to make a good weld. If you want to weld heavy sections with wirefeed, then you need a big power supply and special gases to produce a spray arc where the metal liquifies when it comes out of the contact tip and sprays in liquid form into the weld channel.

These smaller welders that you are talking about are for short circuit welding only. The wire comes out and makes contact and then melts off the short circuited section that gets hot. More wire feeds out and it does it over and over.

I have cut way back on Oxy-Ac welding, but I still use TIG, Stick, or MIG as the situation demands. ....


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Mecheng
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2004-03-05          78894


Can't alway judge small MIGs by their amp rating. I am speaking of no-name bargain brands. My brother-in law has a 110v Miller which will do about anything up to small trailers out of angle iron. I'm totally sold on it and it will be my next purcahse. My 130 amp Marquette struggles over .100" thick material. Great for thin sheet metal though. ....


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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-03-05          78944


Weld Procedure Specifications (AWS D1.1) can be written for steel over 1" thick with 3/32 flux core T71 wire. We use it in many applications for field welding where gas shielding is not recommended due to atmospheric problems. Requires 250 amp power source, but is an arc welding procedure. Been building bridges, buildings and stadiums for a long time and never heard of a welding proocess that "sprays" molten metal into a channel. The consumable is only a part of the welding process. The fusion and mixing between the base metal and the consumable in the weld pool forms a weld. I would like to learn more about the spray process you described. Shielding gases for GMAW are just that, shields, inert gases that keep the gases in the atmosphere from reacting in (boiling) the weld pool. Can you tell me the name of the welding process for steel that you are descibing. Thanks ....


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itsgottobegreen
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 329 Mt. Airy, MD
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2004-03-05          78951


First 3 thing you need to know about welders is 1)MILLER 2)MILLER and 3)MILLER Nothing comes close.

If you going to want to weld aluminum you are going to want a miller 210 with the 3035 spool mate. I bought this set up about 1 month ago. By the time you buy a MIller 175, the 3035 spoolmate and spoolmate control box you could for about $300 buy twice the machine. Aluminum feeds at a much higher rate than steel. Most machines can't handle this speed. Plus aluminum is very soft and jams in the gun.

Miller by the way has the best customer support. I had a bad gas valve in my brand new miller 210. Then send me 2nd day air a new valve, regulator and 40 tip of .030 and .035. The i had the district manger call me and asked if the problem was fixed. I will never buy another welder from another manufactor. ....


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jeff r
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 428 burton. michigan
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2004-03-11          79555


ITsgottobegreen,

Miller and Hobart are the same companies. A Miller 210 is the same as a Hobart Ironman 210 except you get a better gun with a Miller 210. A Miller 210 will cost you more but a Hobart Ironman 210 is just as nice with less cost. A mig welder on 110 volts is VERY limited and WILL NOT do 1/4 steel unless YOU "V" groove both sides and then it is iffy NO MATTER WHO TELLS YOU WHAT. That voltage has no penetration. spend the money and get a 220 volt mig welder and a Hobart Handler 175 is the less I would settle for.

....


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itsgottobegreen
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 329 Mt. Airy, MD
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2004-03-11          79579


I had a Craftsman by century 115volt welder. It drove me nuts, would weld differently every time. Muilt passes on anythig over a 1/8". So i went and bought a commerical rig. The holbart company is owned by miller. The ironman 210 and the millermatic 210 has a $350 price difference. The miller has heavier electonics and gun. I had the dealer take the sides off both machines to get a look at inside. The Miller is commerical/industry duty while the Holbart is hobby/farm duty. Millers only avaible through a dealer, holbart can be bought any where. ....


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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-03-11          79585


jeff, agree with you on about everything you say about 110 welders. Wife got me a Miller 175 for Christmas, nice machine. I had been using a Century 110 before that and built a 20ton log splitter with it. You can get decent penetration in 1/4" steel if you pre-heat to make up for the energy you are missing at the arc. Been using the splitter for two years without a problem. Not to say I would ever use that welder again, but 1/4" steel is possible with good pre-heat, 035T71 wire, and some patience. ....


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psimonson
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 57 Northeastern Tennessee
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2004-03-11          79589


Beagle – you questioned the spray arc process.

My older MIG is a 225 Linde that dates back to the 80’s. Factory sample settings included combinations for spray arc welding for 1/4”+ material. Basically, you set the machine so high it melts the wire between the tip of and the gun and the work. We've used it on several jobs and it works fine with C25 gas shield. Advantage is greater penetration with a single pass. Disadvantage is that the work has to be almost perfectly flat since the high heat gives you a huge puddle of molten metal.
....


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itsgottobegreen
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 329 Mt. Airy, MD
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2004-03-11          79595


psimonson-I still am working on how to build a cab for my B7500. Thanks for the pic of yours. But now i want some pics of that backhoe. It almost looks stock. What is it Cadhoe design or what. ....


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agentorange
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 117 Pacific Northwest
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2004-03-12          79647


I did use an old WeldpPak 100 the other night at work. Had a couple 3/16 brackets that I just stuffed onto a 1/4 bigger piece just for fun. This welder was 4-5 years old, heavily used. First pass came out a bit wierd. Making 2-3" passes around these little scrap pieces. A couple more tries and it came out OK, barely OK. All settings maxed-out. Wouldn't have done anything thicker.

I was fixing some elevators at the airport the other day and came across some iron-workers doing an overhead decking project. They said they use them occasionally for little tack jobs and other pissy things. Not sure which brand or size but a 110vac unit. They say if gun uses .035 you can increase heat by using .031 wire.

I s'pose I'll use my normal rule: configure what I'll do at a maximum and take one more step.

-ao ....


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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-03-12          79650


PS, thanks for the info. on spray welding. Sounds something like submerged arc welding, but a manual process. Haven't seen it in any of our applications, and from the description, I don't think I will either. Thanks again for the response. ....


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plots1
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 563 mo
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2004-03-12          79691


110'S CAN WELD WELD 1/4 inch if you prepare metal as Jeff R stated, ME and him had this talk before. I use to use one often, Now I have 220 volt 175 amp using 212-MP flux core wire, It melts 1/2 plates togather with a lot less metal prep. ....


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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2004-03-12          79697


I believe that Miller is celling their welders at an outlet store now. I know I have seen them at one of the box stores. The small units feed and guns certainly appear to be better built than the others. The price was competative with the Lincolns at the store I was in.
Sorry I just can not remember where it was. Boy I need to stop travelling so much!!! ....


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PushRod
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 7 Underwood Iowa
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2004-03-13          79713


I have a Millermatic 135.

I've used the crud out of it. One thing about the 110v units, they rate out at about 20amps on the input. So a typical home outlet most of the times seems to be about 15amps in newer homes. I have a dedicated lines to my garage. 110 and 220. When I first got the welder I did not have those and would throw the breaker if I cranked it up. Looking back, I would have started out with the 175 since it's not that much more and now that I have 220v to the garage. My brother has an older Hobart 110v unit. It dont have much power. But I think there is something wrong with it. Also the Miller has infinite voltage control as the Hobart does not. Sometimes I wonder if the infinite voltage control is not that big of a deal since I'm using it at 10 most of the time. I turn it down for thin. I've welded alot of thin tubing with it. Works beatiful.

Whats good about 110's is their portability. Take it anywhere to weld light stuff.

It welds really good (depending on the hand holding the gun). I've made several projects. I have welded some very thick stuff (1/4 to 3/8). You can do it and have a decent weld but it is very slow for thick. While I'm not welding expert I did ask a couple of fab guys about MIG welding. One suggested using .023" because he felt you could apply more heat with the thin wire. He also mentioned he felt that flux wire (without gas) makes a hotter weld also but is not as pretty.

I also bought a Miller Cutmate 375 to accent the blue color in my garage with more blue color. All I can say about the plasma cutter is that once you have one it's like a dream come true for metal working.

Perhaps someday when I can convice my wife I would like get a Millermatic 251. It will go up to 300 amps. But I will probably get a good stick welder.

thanks
Jim
Omaha Nebraska ....


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AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-03-17          80131


Beagle,
I missed your original question when I mentioned spray arc MIG. It is not really like submerged arc. It is definitely a MIG process using the same wire as with the more common short arc welding. You only get to spray are with high current and special gas mixes. You cannot do spray arc welding with CO2 shielding gas. Gas mixtures must contain mostly Argon with a very small amount of O2 or CO2.

The heat that a MIG system puts into a weld is directly related to the wire feed rate. You only adjust the voltage to control weld appearance and to properly burn off the wire at a certain feed rate. So, if you want to weld thicker stuff, you turn up the wire speed. As you turn up the speed, the current used will go up to the limit of the welder. With spray arc, the wire feed rate can easily exceed one foot per second.

On a stick welder, we are used to turning up the current, but MIG is different. I like my MIG a lot and use it more than any other welder in my shop, but if I want maximum penetration on thick material, there is no question that I will use stick instead of the MIG. ....


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