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gizmo-36
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 8 S.C.
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2005-12-13          120947


I am going to weld a trailer to use with my tractor a16ft .Will 6013 do or do I need to use something else.



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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-12-13          120950


Two things come to mind right off the bat.

First, a trailer is NOT the place for someone to learn welding, it is something that should, for safety reasons, be left to VERY accomplished welders.

Secondly, to answer your question, no 6013 is not an appropriate electrode to use for something like structural welds, it is better suited to low current welds on light material where strength is less important than appearance.

A better choice would be something like 7018.

Best of luck. ....


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KosseTX
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15 texas
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2005-12-13          120958


If you only have an ac machine, 6011 will do the job also. You may want to cover the weld with 6013 after. ....


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Carldarnell
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 91 Taylorsville Ky
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2005-12-19          121317


6013 is a good rod that don't splatter, strikes easy and welds smoothly. It gives a nice finish unlike 6011 and 6011 is hard to strike on a used rod. 7018 is a very good rod, makes a smooth weld and strikes easy. In my experience the weld seldom fails. The metal at the edge of the weld fails. The extra 10,000 lb of tensil strength in the 7018 rod would be of little use on a trailer. However, the smoothness of the weld using 6013 or 7018 would be a benifit. ....


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havoctec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 56 Minnesota
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2005-12-19          121356


A 6013 does not penetrate as well as a 6011 or 7018. That is part of the reason why the metal beside the weld fails. Which is still actually a failure of the weld. ....


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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2005-12-19          121361


The weld filler metal nees to be matched to the weld process and the base material. The first 2 numbers are the weld metal tensile strength, the third number is the positions the filler metal is allowed for, and the fourth number is the flux and current indicator.

For AC welding, 1-4, or 6-8 is acceptable. For welding structural sections, 7018 is compatable with most low carbon steels, and is an all position rod.

As previously stated, welding a trailer is not a good project to learn on. Trailers take a lot of abuse, and are subject to dynamic (fatigue) load revesals. Welds that look ok may have deficiencies that could be a problem on the road. ....


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Carldarnell
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 91 Taylorsville Ky
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2005-12-19          121390


I do like and use both 6013 and 7018. I am not a schooled welder but self taught. I looked in my booklet of rods and it listed 6012,6013 and 7014 for welding carbon steel sheet metal. It listed 7018 and 7028 for welding thicker carbon and alloy steel. I have liked and always used 6013 more than any other rod. I seldom have penetration or weld failure but I like to use the rod size, amperage and puddle control to get the penetration and bonding of the parts. I probably should start using more 7018 because I do like the way it flows and puddles. I seldom weld stuff thicker than 1/2" so penetration is not a problem. Aw shucks fellows, you talked me into it. I'll buy 5lbs of 7018 the next time I buy rods.
I totally agree, a trailer is NOT a good first project for a new welder. To many things to go wrong. ....


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gizmo-36
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 8 S.C.
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2005-12-19          121395


This trailer is to use with my tractor . It will never be on the road .I have all ready made one it is 10ft .But i can not get much hay on it.I need a big one. ....


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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2005-12-20          121404


The structural design is also important. Suggest you visit local trailer dealers and compare designs. Copy the best looking one. You can make hand sketches and measurements after business hours without being disturbed. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-12-20          121407


"In my experience the weld seldom fails. The metal at the edge of the weld fails."

"I seldom have penetration or weld failure but I like to use the rod size..."

Caldarnel, with all due respect, failure of the metal next to the weld, is a weld failure. It is caused by using an incorrect rod, an incorrect amperage setting, or both.

Penetration is a function of BOTH the amperage settings and rod type.

Unfortunately with very little practice it is easy to make remarkably good-looking welds, which are structurally nearly useless.

I would advise anyone who wishes to weld anything where strength is an issue to either take a course, or at the very least get a couple of books and learn the basics of how welding works.

Gizmo, if you want a 'trailer' that is strictly for behind your tractor, I would suggest a wagon is a better choice. In fact you can almost always get a used wagon in decent shape for less than it would cost you to build one.

Best of luck. ....


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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2005-12-20          121408


Hey Murf, we are well schooled in welding here, but would by-God love some instruction on how to back up a wagon. Just can't seem to get everything going the right way (LOL), ever.

Regards ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-12-20          121410


Beagle, that's a secret, if I went and told everybody then what?

They'd probably toss me out of the Federation of Agriculture!!

ROFLMAO.

Actually it's one of those things that once you get the hang of it, you can't believe how simple it really is.

Here's how it works, first, and most importantly, keep the whole affair (tractor, draw bar, and wagon) as straight as possible until you get good at backing up. Next, work on gentle turns. Here is where it gets tricky, you have to forget the direction of the tractor completely, and only steer it sub-consciously. You have to think of the steering of the wagon only, just jockey the tractor around to keep the draw bar steering the wagon in the right direction. Dont be afraid to do a lot of 'back & forth' (sort of like parallel parking) with the tractor until you get the hang of it.

In a nut shell, if you are reversing, rolling south, and want the wagon to turn to the east, you need to turn the the front of the tractor to slightly west. This turns the tractor towards the east a little and takes the draw bar east as well, since it has automotive type steering, taking the drawbar east the wagon turns slightly to that direction too.

Best of luck. ....


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beagle
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2005-12-20          121411


So I guess the first thing we do is get a couple of those dash mounted compasses for the equipment. One for the dash, and one for the rear fender.

If we can get them to both read the same thing, we may have a chance. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-12-20          121414


Some guys ya' just can't help, no matter how hard ya' try!

LOL.

Practice, practice, practice........... ....


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Carldarnell
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 91 Taylorsville Ky
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2005-12-20          121415


Hmm, Murf and others, just so you understand, I have been welding for, lets see, 2005-1958=47 years. I think that is long enough to find from experience and asking questions just how to weld. I have welded frames for machines that weigh several tons for just the frame. Many times I designed and assembled a machine for a customer from his verbal explanations of what he wanted it to do. I am a mechanic, machinist, welder and electrician and proud of it. It took the use of all those skill on a regular basis to do my job. I am not a MASTER of any thing as I am constantly learning. But thanks for the info, I use what is usful and discard the rest. ....


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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2005-12-20          121426


"Beagle, that's a secret, if I went and told everybody then what?"

I guess that haywagon pulling (and pushing backward) experience as a young lad on the 9N did some good for me after all. It's not easy though is it? ....


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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2005-12-20          121437


Murf you have managed to make me wet myself! Suspose I need to back toward the NE...ROTFLMAO in a puddle...

Backing a wagon is best learned loaded with hay up a ramp into the barn.

Damn my cheeks now hurt...

....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2005-12-20          121438


Come on now Harvey, don't give away all the fun now......

I was saving the loaded hay wagon on the muddy mow ramp with bald tires for the final exam.....

Or should it be the loaded gravity bin onto the auger hopper in the snow & ice ??

LOL.

Best of luck. ....


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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-12-20          121442


How bout the fully topped off 24 foot forage wagon. Up a hill w/o 4wd. ....


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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
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2005-12-21          121455


Murf Since you brought up the short wheel base gravity wagon with 24" side boards and the long tounge...We might as well hook 2 together...

....


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shortmagnum
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2005-12-21          121462


I forgot about my one winter driving a logging truck. Truck and pup trailer weighing 90k lbs sliding backward down a hill in the woods. You've gotta get off the brakes and steer. There's no time to make any mistakes. What a ride!
Dave ....


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Carldarnell
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 91 Taylorsville Ky
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2005-12-22          121541


Boots, where are my hip boots. Its getting to deep here for shoes. ....


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shortmagnum
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2005-12-22          121544


Hey, I resemble that remark.

Rookie logging truck drivers (and even experienced ones) can get themselves into bad situations pretty easily in the woods. When you lose traction on hillsides things happen fast.
Dave ....


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