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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-01-31          105323


I'm 74 years old and I've noticed that I get Older each Day.I've always wanted to be able to weld and I think a welder is very Skilled Ocupation and by golly I still want to weld before I die.
I'm going to buy me a Used Mig welder if I can find one. I want to be able to weld steel up to 1/4 inch. The high School classes are not interested in teaching an old man so I'm going to try it on my own. I will need a lot of advice and I hope you guys will help me out!
Bob Jones




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botamac
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 71 MI
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2005-01-31          105327


Well Bob!
It’s never to late to add any tool to the toy list……in my opinion……. I feel the more tools you have the more creative you can become. So go for it.
....


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BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 649 Central West Virginia
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2005-01-31          105331


Good for you. Welding has been one of the most satisfying hobbies I've had...also one of the most aggravating. But the more you practice, the more good times you have.

I found it easier to learn on a stick welder and move to the MIG, as the MIG requires more attention to arc length and setting the machine up. Either way, it is really all about what you get used to.

Good luck,
Bill
....


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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2005-01-31          105334


Bill makes a good point, but I think with Fluxcore wire, wire feed welding isn't a bad place to start. There is some decent equipment available at reasonable prices. If you only need to weld 1/4" steel, a 130amp welder will get it done with some practice, patience, and a little bit of pre-heat.

I hope I still have your enthusiasm in the future. It's great to see people keep on tractoring. ....


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plots1
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2005-01-31          105337


I believe 130 amp running flux core wire will weld 1/4 inch very well without having to preheat. ....


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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2005-01-31          105342


It probably will weld 1/4" pretty well, but we pre-heat everything to at least 100 degrees to drive any moisture away from the weld joint before welding. Embedded moisture draws a lot of energy from the arc, and can cause pitting of the weld. AWS requires pre-heat for any weld when the temperature falls below 35 degrees. ....


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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2005-02-01          105346


For general all around back yard non professional welding (old school farm and homeowner repairs on old rusty dirty somewhat cleaned up and new metal) nothing quite beats a good old stick with 6011 or 6013/7018.

Professional welding requires many different applications and setups. We do lots of fabrication with wire and lots of field repairs on different alloys with stick, currently the welders carry at least 10 different types of rod covering old dirty steel to the hi-chromes, mageneziums and cast.

Please do not misunderstand the above statement. The guys in the yard have years of experience welding and fixing stuff and neither one even begins to consider themselves a professional welder. But they can weld upside down, uphill, down hill and any other position you can think of with the steadiest of hand and their work looks awesome with plenty of penatration.

But the 6011 wins out almost every time for a good old down and dirty repair.

A buzz box with ac/dc 230 amps ac side and stick is the best way to learn good solid basic welding skills. Just my humble opnion. ....


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havoctec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 56 Minnesota
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2005-02-01          105349


Bob
is there a Technical college near you. If so, they may have a welding program and I'm sure you could talk an introdutory class with them. If not, it is just going to take some practice. ....


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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2005-02-01          105357


"A buzz box with ac/dc 230 amps ac side and stick is the best way to learn good solid basic welding skills. Just my humble opnion."

I'm with Harvey here. It's the simplest and least expensive way to get good results right away.

It's great that you're learning a new skill. Old dogs can learn new tricks. Plus, every time you gain a new skill it helps to keep the brain wired properly. Have fun!
Dave ....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-02-01          105359


If I have as much fun welding as I have looking for a used Welder, I'm really getting to act like a Welder when I Shop.
I know where there is a Lincoln 3200 looks new, What should I be able to buy one for? I will never be able to have anyone cut their price as I want to be fair! Some Idea what to pay would be great ....


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shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2005-02-01          105361


jonesiera, They are going for $300+ on Ebay (see link below). It's a 110 V welder. If it's important to weld 1/4" steel you won't be able to with this one. I've got a similar Century MIG and I wouldn't weld anything over 1/8" with it. 130 amp was suggested earlier. I would go farther and say 170 amps for a MIG that will handle 1/4" stock. The prices of MIGs go up quickly with amperage.
Have fun.
Dave

Edit: I just looked at that ebay website again and they say it will handle 5/16" steel. Don't believe it. Maybe half that. They just don't put out enough heat for that kind of penetration. ....


Link:   lincoln 3200

 

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beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2005-02-01          105363


We have been able to weld 1/4" very well with 130amp machines. Like I said earlier, takes a little practice, time, and heat, but you can get a good weld on 1/4" with a 130amp machine. If you are going to do a lot of it, I would recommend larger, but it will weld 1/4" nicely. You will probably be at about 20% duty cycle, so patience is important.

We were in a bind fixing a piece of equipment will 3/4" gusset plates. Only power available at the time was 120v, so we welded it with a 130amp machine. A lot of pre-heat, and several passes, we were able to get the equipment back in service. Not recommended, and not to AWS spec, but back in servece for the day. ....


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Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 955 Central Iowa
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2005-02-01          105364


Have you looked into classes at a local community college? Many seniors take classes at community colleges to keep their minds active and alert. Learning is a life long process so why stop when you retire?

I saw one episode of Monster Garage (on Discovery Channel) where a group of guys built a customer street rod in 7 days. The youngest guy was about 65 years old. These guys were incredible with their skill at cutting, welding, body work, etc. The oldest was at least 80 years old. So you are definitely not too old to learn to weld. ....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-02-01          105367


I took my wife with me to look at new welders and she wasn't the least impressed, in fact had I bought a new one the cost would have been pretty high. Divorce Lawyer, all my savings (not much just sounded good) plus house Barn, but I'll be Da**-+ if she will get the Tractor. I'll probably buy a used one and tell her it cost $55.00 she thinks even that is high!
If anyone finds a welder for %% let me know Ha Ha ....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-02-02          105411


Hey Guys can you help me out! I found a Miller 250 Mig welder from a friend of mine for $700, but the Problem is that he has a Spool Gun on it that will only handle Alum. and not Steel wire. I need advice Please
Bob J ....


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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2005-02-02          105412


Sounds like you have your heart set on a mig set up. That is a lot of machine for a non welder to learn on. The wire feed set up will set you back another $500-$1000 plus depending on what you want unless you can find a used set up.

You can get new smaller migs ( not the 110 V either) for the same money new ready to go with wire.

A new ac/dc 225 amp buzz box stick welder with every thing included is less than $350 new in the box. You can get a ln25 wire feed that will work on it for $1200.

Have fun with the decision... Harvey ....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-02-02          105413


I'm really confused. I don't understand about the setup for steel, he told me all I would would be a wire gun for around 200.00. My Son can weld and I thought he could have it when I no longer need it. I can't seem to figure why it would be any different to use one Mig over the other, can you help me outon this?
Bob ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-02-02          105414


Bob, the problem may not really exist, we don't know if this mig you are looking at was converted to run aluminum or if it doesn't have the parts needed to run steel wire.

Here's the differences between steel & aluminum in 'crayon'.

Because aluminum wire is so soft, it must be pulled through the cable to the gun, if you try to push it all you get is a bird's nest of aluminum wire, thus the need for a 'spool gun'.

With steel wire however it very stiff and can easily be pushed out the cable to the gun, so the spool and 'push mechansim' is all inside the welder cabinet.

If the welder was spec'ed for aluminum from new it likely doesn't have the spool and feed mechanism inside the cabinet. If it does you only need a new cable / gun assembly. Bear in mind when I say 'only' I mean about $400, if you need the whole assembly the cost goes way up from there.

Best of luck.

A new gun can be spendy ....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-02-02          105415


The Welder now has a Spool gun on it. It was ordered that way, but he said it had the Mech inside the welder for the regular gun? He said I could probably trade the Spool gun for a Regular wire gun. I should have stayed with a sodering iron. ....


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jdcman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 103 washington
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2005-02-02          105417


Bob,

Welding is all about puddle control.

Taking a class or having somebody knowledgably in the subject look over your shoulder or inspect your work and give advice on technique is what you will need to come up to speed quickly.

O/A, Stick, Mig, and Tig are just different process that allows one to optimize puddle manipulation for varying applications and materials.

O/A is my preferred method for teaching a person to weld. Moving a bead across a 1/16-inch thick chunk of sheet metal is fundamental. Once you can do that try adding some filler rod. Then butt weld some pieces, then some T joints and so on and so forth.


O/A allows the student the opportunity to see and manipulate the weld quickly without having to fuss with the machine, settings or deal with trying to sort out flux flow vs. the weld puddle.

The dangerous thing about MIG is that it's falsely given everybody and his uncle the impression that they can weld. It's the easiest weld process to do incorrectly.

Stick is great for lots of Ag type projects. Also very versatile until you get to the very thin gauge stuff.

For the type of work I do, (thin wall tubing, AL), TIG is my preferred process.

Good Luck

....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-02-02          105418


My neighbor is a certified Welder and welds on aircraft and he said he will help to get me started.
Heck, I probably won't remember which end is up, I'm almost ready to forget it. All I want to do is have something keep me going without checking people at Walmart.Ha Ha ....


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havoctec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 56 Minnesota
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2005-02-03          105448


Sounds like you should be in good shape if your neighbor is willing to help you out. That would be the least frustorating for you. People here wnat to help and usually have some good advise but it is usually very difficult to explain procedures through writing alone.

Don't give up on your welding quest!
....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-02-03          105468


My Big problem is trying to find a gun that will work on the MM 250 without going to Miller. I though John Deere was high ,but man Miller takes second to no one. I was told that BOC made a Generic that fit Miller, but there is none around here I'm afraid to buy one on Ebay, Anyone got any idea where Generics can be purchased with out buying an adapter?
Bob ....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-02-08          105766


Well
I bought a new 125CF Cyl today for $145.00 and now I'm going to try and find a gun and helmet. Heck I better learn to weld so I can get the Boss off my back ....


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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2005-02-08          105783


Don't cheap out now, buy the helmet with the instant darkening lens. Maybe the pros can do great with the old style, but as a hobby welder, the nicest thing I upgraded to was the instant dark. It lets you see everything until you strike an arc, and then see it all again when you stop. No more constant lifting the helmet or being off target after you flip it down. I got the $99 lens that fit my old helmet, but will upgrade to a larger lens adjustable darkness soon. ....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-02-09          105829


What kind of Auto Darkening helmet would you buy? Some have said to get one with 4 sensors so as not to get flashed. Heck I'm to old to flash anyone!
Bob J ....


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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2005-02-09          105859


The sensor thing is why I want to upgrade. I get flashed once in a while. Always when I am welding in some strange position and the one sensor is blocked by steel. I have a shaded lens in front of the instant change so a flash is less painfull. I have not had any pain or discomfort from the flashes so they must not have been as bad as I hear they can be. The shields with 4 sensors are salty, over $200 and over $300 I think. ....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-02-10          105903


A guy I know has a KT Auto helmet and swears by it. Has anyone ever heard of them? How can you tell how many Sensors a helmet has? ....


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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-02-10          105927


There are auto flash helmets that are solar powered and ones that are run by battery. Both are adaquate for what your planning. I had a $350 helmet till a weldment fell on it and broke the heck out of it (the whole helmet) So Bright me goes out to farm and fleet and buys the helmet that is on sale for $79. No problem with the auto flash (although this one is battery operated and needs to be turned on by a push button) but the reason they are so cheap is the rest of the whole helmet. It is made really cheaply and wont stay up. Then you tighten the heck out of it and it breaks. So you put a nut and bolt thru it and the other side breaks. LOL Well I finally got it fixed after about 2 hours of messing around and it still falls on me. LOL
Bottom line though, is it works fine if you dont mind taking the helmet off inbetween welds (which for a part time welder is no big deal) If I welded every day I would buy a better helmet but while I was working I would only average about 20 min. a day or less of welding. Now and then I would have a welding job and be on it for a few hours but all in all the helmet is ok.
BTW The cheapy can be adjusted for darkness and speed of flash and I have never had a problem with being flashed too much.
( I am by no means a experianced welder. Although I am certified that dont mean a whole hell of alot unless you weld every day IMHO)So take my advice with some caution, just thought I would pass on what I have experianced!
Good luck!
Tom ....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-02-11          105931


Tom
To be Certified is a great accomplishment in its self. I've been bugging the heck out of welders around here and not one of them is Certified! I'll be happy just to be able to weld some attachments for my Tractor and things around Home. It is almost impossible for me find a welder that wants to do small jobs nd I don't blame them. If I ever learn to weld I might be able to help out, but I won't hold my breath. ....


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richardx
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10 West Virginia
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2005-08-23          115318


Community colleges will be happy to take your money,,,votech scholls,[anything that costs money],,get you a little buzz box,,,,under 200 dollars,,and some 6013 rods,,and some scrap steel,,and go man,,,,,thingy ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-08-24          115339


A post nearly 7 months after the thread ended, I guess it ISN'T ever too late....... ....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-08-24          115346


Murf,
Thats good! I almost had forgot that thread!!!
I've done a lot of welding on various projects. I kind of like the Stick welding after I quit sticking the rods.
Haven't used the Mig only to play with it.
Found my left hand thread bolts Northern Hydraulics.
They call them "reverse threads" Heck whatever floats their boat, as long as they got it for me, I don't care what they call them!
Bob ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2005-08-29          115613


Jonesiera,

I noticed that you never followed up on this thread, I hope it was not too late for you and that all is well with you.

Dennis ....


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jonesiera
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 187 Bedford,In 47421
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2005-08-29          115619


I have spent a lot of time welding various things. I go to my friends Fab Shop and they have taught me a lot. I can weld, but I can't yet call myself a Weldor!
Thanks ....


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lbrown59
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2005-09-15          116434


I did't realize tractoring and welding was one in the same.LOL

I shoulda been a welder. ....


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