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Roger L.
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2001-01-07          23164


I got to thinking about loaders this morning, and wondered what features the members of this group like or dislike about their loaders.



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Bird Senter
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2001-01-07          23168


Roger, actually I'm quite happy with the LA401 loader on my B2710, but I was surprised to learn, when I got it, that you cannot both curl and lift the bucket at the same time. Both the manual and the sticker on the tractor clearly show that it was designed that way. You can dump at the same time you are raising or lowering bucket, and you can even curl the bucket back as you lower it; just can't raise and curl simultaneously. ....


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KlayW in MI
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2001-01-07          23177


Bird, did I read that right? Your 401 loader will NOT both lift and curl the bucket at the same time? Do your mean the valve will not allow it or Kubota owners manual recommends against it? When I first read the post I had thought for sure I CAN do both directions at once. I have the LA402 on my B2710 and was told the only differance was the mounting pin location for ease of removal. The owners manual recommends against both at once due to "insufficient lift force" though. My book also lists a 3 position control valve and a 4 position. Maybe we discovered more differances! ....


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mbjacobs
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2001-01-07          23182


I have a Kubota L3710 with the LA681 loader and the heavy duty bucket. Overall I'm very happy with my tractor and loader and I'd buy the same if I were doing it today. But, I would like to see a bigger range of motion in the curl/dump function. When carrying the bucket low I can't curl back enough to prevent spilling from a full bucket. Even a great machine could be improved. ....


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Bird Senter
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2001-01-07          23187


Yep, KlayW, you read it right. And I still don't entirely understand the differences in the 3 and 4 position valves; just haven't taken the time to study the manuals enough. ....


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KlayW in MI
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2001-01-07          23188


Bird, I did ask for the 4 way prior to purchase but now that I read the manual after actually using the loader I remember it backwards. Book says with the 4 way you will have a 2 speed dump setting. One regular for precise control and further right (sim to float) a high speed dump. Mine seems backwards to this. If I do not go all the way right I can unload quicker than part way. Where's ART when you need'im? He might be able to 'splane it better. ....


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Mike S.
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2001-01-07          23189


Roger--First some comments about my JD430 loader with HD bucket: It has excellent construction and operation and while I may have some issues with the tractor it is mounted on, I have been impressed with this FEL. It takes under five minutes to remove it and slightly longer to mount it and its capabilities, including breakout force, is excellent for its size. Another advantage to the 430 is being able to pull 2 pins to remove the bucket and within a couple of minutes, mount the front forks. The only minor irritant is when I am turned around in the seat watching a rear implement and I often accidentally move the joystick. Second, I have examined, but not actually used a New Holland 16LA FEL because I have an interest in purchasing a TC35D. The hood and loader are sloped in such a way as to give a better view of the bucket when it is on the ground and its mounting to the tractor seems very substantial. BUT, the bucket itself does not easily detach and it would have been a better design IMHO had the Boomer engineers designed the bucket to be quickly detached using the same hookup as the NH Skidloaders so their attachments would fit (believe some of the Ford-NH tractors' FELs do so and actually use NH skidloader attachments). Mike S. ....


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Cliff Addison
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2001-01-07          23190


Roger,

My NH 7308 loader is a fantastic loader. I can have it mounted in less than three minutes and unattached even faster. The 68" heavy duty bucket is plenty for the 1320 though. The one thing I would like to see is the standard feature of a quick attach bucket and attachments. I think if all the loader manufactures would employ this as a standard feature they would sell more FEL attachments. I like the idea of the new loaders and their slanted design for the new boomers. I spend a lot of time with a case skid steer during our fair in the Summer and the one nice thing is to be able to see the bucket, although I do develope a feel for mine after using it awhile. Also lets ask for a Freedom hitch or Delta hook as standard equipment, and Tip'N'Tilt would not hurt either. Doesn't hurt to wish big.----Cliff ....


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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2001-01-08          23194


Allied 195 here. The loader came with the used tractor. I suspect that price is its best feature. It's a no-frills kind of loader, but it works fine, does what I need done, and there have been no problems. Well, I did have a problem, but one I can't blame on the loader. Somebody put 90-degree grease zircs in the top of the bucket arms. The fittings were next to impossible to reach with any ordinary grease gun fitting in any bucket/arm position. I replaced them with 45-degree fittings that are easy to reach. It also didn't take long for the jerkiness when slowly lowering a loaded bucket to disappear. Why would somebody install something that didn't work and then leave them there I wonder?

In terms of wishes, I wish the bucket would go lower. A flat bucket can't be lowered further than ground level. I have to angle the bucket down to get appreciable down pressure for compacting gravel or digging shallow excavations. I also wish the loader had a fast dump. Yesterday I used the loader blade to take off the snow pack that builds up and the blower won't touch. I spent a good chunk of time 'ho-humming' while the bucket leisurely added to my various piles of snow. However, I wouldn't want to give up much power in the dump circuit to gain speed (I believe that fast dumps use regenerative circuits, which gain speed at the cost of power). The success of my snow pack removing operations is because I am able to float the arms and adjust the blade angle on the fly. I'm not sure a regenerative dump would provide enough power. The 2-speed dump mentioned sounds really good.

....


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Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2001-01-08          23199


Guys, this thread ought to really help out the people looking for loaders. It is interesting to me that while everyone has a few things they would change, they also feel that all their loaders do the job just fine. A quick detach bucket came up several times. I would like to have such a thing myself, but only if it didn't add much weight to the bucket. I like a light bucket. In fact, I prefer a light weight loader....but constructed of high strength thin wall steel. Most of the older ones that I see are the opposite: heavily built of low strength steel. That is the type of construction I like to see on a back blade, but not on a loader.
Faster cycle times.....hmmm....we ought to be able to figure this one out, so why can't the manufacturers? It is a universal lament.
....


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Ted Kennedy
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2001-01-08          23200


Mr. Loving has the right idea, I think, but there is a very good reason why most loaders are made the way they are. Some of you know me as a landscaper, that's my evening job, my day job is in aerospace engineering, and this is one area where tractors and aircraft converge. Manufacturing engineering costs for low-strength steel are much cheeper than for high strength thin wall steel. A move to the more expensive material affects the entire manufacturing process; from initial material purchase, to cutting, to tooling, to forming methods, to welding, and even final finishing. As nice as it would be to have such a unit, the cost increase would have to be passed onto the customer. About the quick attach bucket feature, when I added a Kasco unit to my loader I lost load capacity of about a hundred pounds, to get it back I switched to a Woods light-weight, heavy duty skid steer bucket. In the long run, light weight with strength costs money. As far as quick cycle times go, here again, costs are a consideration that has to eventually get passed back to the customer. I really do like the design of the NH/Case Boomer loader. It is this kind of feedback from the contributors to this board that can help move the manufacturers into considering making the kinds of changes suggested, together we have a powerful voice that is hard to ignore. Maybe the web master could E-mail this thread to the major players and see what comes of it. ....


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JeffM
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2001-01-08          23210


I have a JD 430 with heavy-duty 60" bucket on a JD4400 tractor. I echo all of Mike S.' comments about this loader: well constructed, incredibly easy to attach/detach both the loader and the bucket, and plenty of power and capacity for a loader this size. Some additional comments: The compatibility between the loader and mid-mount mower is very important to me. The heavy-duty reinforced bucket is critical for me because of the glacial rock-embedded clay soil I am blessed with - I'm sure I would have "racked" a lighter bucket by now. I like the fact that the top of the 430 bucket is flat and parallel to the bottom of the bucket - this acts as another bucket level indicator in addition to the rod-type I have also. The quick attach bucket was very important as I expect to be interchanging my HD bucket with both a Brush-Brute and a Curtis snow plow in the future. The two features I added so far have been great too: a detachable tooth bar (ATI) and 3 chain hooks welded to the top of the bucket. ....


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Jack in IL
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2001-01-08          23212


I have a JD 420 loader, and I echo the preceeding positive comments on: (1) ease of mounting and dismounting, (2) quick-change bucket / pallet forks / front blade (all JD), and (3) compatability with mid-mount mower deck. Each time I mow I drop off the loader and then remount it as soon as I am done. This way my loader is always stored inside with the tractor. I don't have enough room to just park the loader inside by itself. ....


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Terry Weivoda
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2001-01-08          23213


Jeff, I have a 6' John Deere front blade that fits the 420, 430 and 460 loaders, BW14677. The blade is for sale and is like new with only about 5-10 hours of use. It is manual angling but hydraulic can be added. Let me know if you might be interested. ....


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Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2001-01-08          23218


Roger, what Jack in Il mentioned is one thing I didn't and that is having a quick attach loader. I've seen some messages indicating that the Deere loader is quicker and easier to remove and put back on than the Kubota, so I really need to stop by a Deere dealer and look at them closer because I can't imagine how it could be any easier than my B2710. The only time I ever looked the clock, it took me 2.5 minutes to put mine on, and it's probably even quicker to take it off. ....


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Roger L.
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2001-01-08          23221


Bird, I couldn't even decide which side to start on in 2.5 min! Maybe we can meet at the JD dealer next time I'm down towards your place and grab some coffee while we see how fast the sales people can mount and dismount their loaders. Could be we've got the makings of a new sport here...
I've got to admit that I'm a little surprised at how many people value the quick detatchable loader feature. I hardly ever use that feature on mine, even though this JD 46A loader is one of the original QD types and removes with three pins and the two quick hose couplings. I've only taken it off 2, maybe 3 times this decade. I guess I could still do it in less than 5 minutes if I hustled... (not likely). ....


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Roger L.
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2001-01-08          23223


Ted, I agree. The bucket is the right place to use thinner high strength steel instead of thick sheets of common steel. Buckets tend to weight a lot and you don't get anything for the extra weight except a load penalty....worse yet, all that weight is hanging way out at the end of the arm.
Speaking of buckets, Jeff mentioned something that you don't miss until you don't have it..... and that is having a bucket with some visible part that is parallel to the cutting edge. That's a very nifty feature. Right along with having a top edge that is strong enough to support a central chain hook and a reasonable load without bending. ....


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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
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2001-01-09          23228


Good morning Gentlemen

The quick detach loaders? Any thing can fall off a tractor, quick. I saw a 46a mentioned. I think the better part of the discussion should be how easy do they reattach. Been there done that with 46a and other farm loaders old, ugly, ones with lever trip buckets. UGGGH! But they all were better than the pitch fork. The 430 series on the 4400 is great on and off. I tend to try and use mine like a Caterpillar at work and have to remember it does not have cat yellow on it. I also remember the round point shovel and wheelbarrow drill and lighten up on it. ....


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Ted Kennedy
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2001-01-09          23229


Roger, if you haven't already, checkout Woods' buckets. I'm fond of this manufacturer because of their iron-clad commitment to customers and for the dedication to improving the products we rely on to get the job done. Woods has made some very nice improvements in loader/loader bucket design and all feature the flat top of the moldboard. One thing I've noticed being offered by several makers lately is the trend away from the traditional wrap-around loader brace. You know the one, from the towers to the front of the machine, the one I'm always wishing wasn't there when I have to access my engine side panels. This is a feature that moves the compact closer to the larger construction TLB's but still retains the detachable feature. I don't know about you, but I'm enjoying this thread. ....


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DanaT
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 138 Clay Center,Ks
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2001-01-09          23231


A while back I seen a picture of a JD farm tractor with a JD loader on it ( I'll try to explain it). The bucket cylinders had linkage that went back to the main post of the loader. What this did was kept the bucket in the same possion as it was raised up or down. When the bucket is full you have to curl down the higher you go so your load don't come over the top of the bucket. It was a self leveling type of design that pay loaders and dozers (with buckets) have been useing for a long time. ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2001-01-09          23234


Tom, my northern neighbour, I read with interest your comments on the 195 loader on your Ford. I have an Allied 395 loader on my personal Kubota (L3450) at home, and had the same problem with the grease zerks, I too replaced them, then sent the info. to Buhler who said they would change them in production from now on. However, I think your inability to exert down-pressure is more related to the loader to machine relationship, my Allied has enough downwards range past contact to lift the front wheels about 6" clear of the ground with the bucket 'flat'. My neighbour has the 195 loader on a small Yanmar, it will do the same thing. Oh well, thats what makes life interesting..... Best of luck. ....


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Roger L.
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2001-01-09          23249


Dana, the self-leveling bucket that you are describing deserves another mention. Here is why I agree.... A few years ago I raised a load of scrap iron up and had it spill out the back of the bucket and onto the hood of the tractor. I still get cold chills when I think of that afternoon. My wife was watching at the time....I had just turned to her and said something like "look how high that bucket goes!".
After the dust cleared, it took about a month and a half of evenings to repair the tractor. The hood, radiator, fuel tank, and dash frame were smashed so flat that they were hard to take off. Someone was smiling on me; I didn't get a scratch. Self-leveling buckets just went up to the top of my "wish list".
....


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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-01-10          23255


Self-leveling: Come to think of it, lack of self-leveling on the loader among other things is why I bought 3ph pallet forks. Chains around the bucket bottom and a tall load isn't all that comfortable when the bucket is up over the front of the tractor. Lack of a backrest and carriage isn't a calming influence either. Since I have the pallet forks, similar loader attachments aren’t a priority, but otherwise, availability of a forklift type of attachment would be high on my list. With the 3ph forks, it's calming to know that, if you've got 1000# 5' in the air, there still is a steel frame above the load, and the frame is between you, the tractor and the load. ....


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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-01-10          23256


Murf: I too contacted the company about the zirc problem when it was still Allied/FarmKing. I was happy with the tech response I got from a design engineer. However, my contact apparently didn't connect with the idea that the zircs used in production should be changed. Actually, I thought the previous owner of my tractor installed the 90-degree zircs for some obscure reason. I suppose I'm also happy to know that my lack of down-pressure probably comes from my too tall tractor rather than my too short loader. The lack of down pressure with a flat bucket isn't really much of a problem. I angle the bucket down a bit when compacting gravel, and I use a box scraper for shallow excavations. I do believe that loaders are best for dealing with gravel etc., while digging and material handling are best left to other implements. Maybe that's a reason I have no complaints about the loader. I mostly use it for what it's actually designed to do well. ....


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DanaT
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 138 Clay Center,Ks
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2001-01-10          23289


I found a picture of bucket linkage that I was refering to. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 

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DanaT
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Posts: 138 Clay Center,Ks
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2001-01-10          23290


Well I can't make it work. Sorry ....


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Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2001-01-10          23293


My browser says you are talking about the picture at the top of the page at:
http://www.deere.com/deerecom/Farmers+and+Ranchers/New+Equipment/Farmstead+Tools/Loaders/default.htm

Kind of hard to make out just how it works; there are several types of self-leveling mechanisms available. Has anyone ever used one?

....


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Ted Kennedy
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2001-01-11          23303


Dana and Roger, I've come across the mechanical bucket self-leveling type of mechanism only once and that was on an early Case TLB. The most common type found on compacts these days are of the hydraulic type found on the up market loaders like Kubota has on the articulated tractors ("R" Series) and I think, the L35 and L48. I've used the hydraulic type and they work very well without compromising the rollback angle. I imagine this is a perfect opportunity for an aftermarket kit manufacturer, I'd certainly consider retro-fitting one of my Cubs' Woods loaders to get this feature. ....


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Randy Eckard
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2001-01-11          23304


I'll give the explanationa a try.
Picture the upper cylinder mount for bucket curl not welded to the booms but instead being pinned to the booms so it can pivot. Then, a rod from that mount back to the upright masts. This way as the loader raises the rear rod hold the cylinder mount in the same relative position with respect to the upright masts. It is similar to a double wishbone suspension keeping the wheels of a car perpendicular with respect to the frame.
Hope that isn't to much gibberish.
Randy ....


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RegL
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2001-01-18          23504


I also have the Allied 195 and so far have been satisfied with it.One feather i would like to have,that i've seen on other loaders,is when your at the end of the dump cycle you can slap the bucket to remove stuck materal.I was wondering if this could be added on an aftermarket basis? ....


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Ben
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2001-02-09          24067


i found this picture of a simple "self levelling" design on a grey market tractor. I've seen this basic design on other tractors as well, but with the cylinder placed further up on the boom. I wonder how well these work? ....


Link:   Grey market self levelling FEL

 

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