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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2007-10-29          147516


Has anyone had the pleasure of hanging a ceiling fan in a great room with a high ceiling. My ceiling is 18.5 feet high and I am contemplating how to get up there:

(My wife thinks I'm nuts. "Get an electrician for God's sake and mine!") she typed that no privacy!

1) use a 28 foot extension ladder leaned against a exposed glue lam. I was thinking I need to roll up the carpet to get a solid footing for the ladder, the area carpet is 12 x 20 on a rubber pad. The guy who stained it when the house was built did it that way.

2) rent a 16 foot step ladder

3) rent a scaffold

4) hire someone to do it my wife's choice.

The fan I bought has a built in remote control. I am lazy and I was going to put an on off switch in the second floor balcony which overlooks the Great room. Or I was going to be completely lazy put switch in the attic or skip the switch in the attic. Or follow my brothers recommendation and do the switch with a X10 receiver, transmitter, which seems sorta redundant since it comes with remote anyway.

Going with a 60" fan though I see some 72" fans. Is bigger better. Main use is for winter with the stove to get the heat back out of the volume space in the house.

Any comments?




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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-10-29          147520


Dennis would your floor support a heavy manlift if you could get through the doorway? There are some small electric ones that hold one man. You push it around then get in and raise it straight up. The issue I see with using a ladder safety aside is the up and down with bulky parts.

I have a 40' telescoping manlift I use to to repair old barns. I made a small platform or "third hand" that bolts to the basket so I can raise and place heavy wood beams easily. So whatever you use, you might want to prefab a work surface to put things on up there.

A small verticle manlift I feel is perfect for the job. The rental cost will more than offset any safety issues, and speed installation. ....


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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2007-10-29          147522


Dennis; Maybe the Mrs. should drug you with something while she hires someone to do this. Man that is high. Who is going to dust the blades, maybe hang it on a small winch to lower it for cleaning and service. Frank. ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2007-10-29          147527


We've got a 60" Casablanca on a 12' downrod in the 24' vaulted ceiling in our 15x20 great room. It quietly moves a lot of air and we never have to run it on high. The guys who installed it used scaffolding. It really doesn't take that long to set up and gives a lot of workspace to walk around and store tools on. If you use scaffolding you'll want to set it up on some plywood to protect the floor. If you got a Casablanca I hope your remote works better than ours. Ours is one of those fancy automatic temperature adjusting remotes but it only works when sitting on the left arm rest of the sofa and the replacement didn't do any better.

Be sure to put in VERY long life bulbs if it has a light. We used some of those capsule style bulbs (can't remember the name but they're not typical incandescent) that should last for five years at least.

And for Frank, with a 12 foot downrod and 12 foot stepladder it's not a big deal to clean it out. Only need to do it once a year or so and a quick vacuum can be done from the upstairs balcony with three vacuum pipes stuck together and a brush on the end. ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2007-10-29          147530


It is going to hang on a 6 foot pole so it will be 12.5 feet when it is up. They also make special extension dusters for fans ;)

I thought you guys were going to say piece of cake what are you worried about.

I guess it will even be hard to raise an extension ladder as the ceiling will make it impossible to raise it in the vertical position.

I will calculate the spread on a 16 foot step ladder tomorrow, maybe that is better.

EW when the house was built before the floors were finished the painters used a lift, but we have a sunken Great Room and we have steps from the outside as well so temp ramps would have to be made up.

I checked into renting scaffolds a while ago, I seem to remember that I flub it up on day one and need day two I would be better off buying the scaffolding LOL.

I need to drive Harvey's tractor in with the boom on the loader that he has ;) That should make it easy. ....


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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2007-10-30          147541


Hey Dennis, no problem. What are you worried about? Rent large step ladder. Have all parts of fan out and inspected. Do use long life bulbs. Be sure you have wire for drop tube. One advantage a step ladder has over scaffolding is the cost and set up time. If you have a quality ladder it should be very stable. You are going to have to install this in pieces anyhow so you are not picking up that much weight. Just place ladder where you can pull the fan up the off side. May want a rope or such to hold it while you connect it. You just may want to wire this fan up and test it before installing to be sure all works first. They do rent step ladders that have an extension center section that is totally vertical. Stay away from the extension ladder. Unless you have an extra brother in law. kt

Remember you can do it, we can help!
....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2007-10-30          147560


KT,

Thanks for your confidence, good if one of us has some ;)

I called the local rental place and the biggest step ladder they have is 14 feet.

They have scaffolding (2 sections make 12 feet) for $36 a day, they say it takes Houdini 15 minutes to assemble. So I think I will go with that.

But now the wife says she's not so sure she likes the fan I bought on sale and wants to look around, so my DIY savings will shortly go up in smoke as usual LOL.

Dennis
....


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crunch
Join Date: Jan 2007
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2007-10-30          147565


I purchased a 12' step ladder for my skylights. The neighbor has had it for the last few months. It was a great investment for me - but I can see where a 16' would be hard to get hold of. I wish you luck. I spend lots of time figuring how to get to the high spots in and around my house. I still haven't figured how to stain my 2 story wooden stack chimney ( that extends from basement to above 2nd story which would require a 50' ladder). ....


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
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2007-10-30          147569


Crunch, only one way to do that safely. You need a boom lift like a Genie Z-45 with articulating jib. That puppy will give you a 51 foot working height on all four sides of the chimney. Our house is similar to yours with three floors, all with 9 foot ceilings, and a 12/12 roof. We rented a Z-45 for a week and I was in hog heaven. All kinds of high work got done that week and I plan on renting one of those babies every year or two. Less than $1k delivered for an entire week and it was money very well spent. ....


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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2007-10-31          147575


Dennis, check with other rental companies, taller ladders are out there. Small hardware store also rents the extra tall ladder. If you decided to go with scaffolding you may want to see what comes with the rental price. Also be sure you know what the working height is. I ended up buying scaffolding fold up unit for less for my need but that was a 12 foot ceiling.

Now thinking on this, rent scaffolding or ladder ($36), 4 hours to unpackage fan and translate to English and be sure fan works, 2 hours to pickup scaffolding or ladder and 2 more to return, 2 hours to clean up after the job, and 2 hours to intall. How much would it cost to hire an electrician on his own to do this? kt ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2007-10-31          147577


KT,

I get 2 sections for a working platform height of 12 feet. I get 24 hours, if I rent Saturday afternoon I can return on Monday morning as a one day rental. So time should not be a problem.

I will take the fan apart and check for all parts before I rent. I can even check how it assembles into the new outlet box before I even rent the scaffold.

I do know what you are saying though, it always seems that I am running back to the store for some other part I need to complete any project I am working on.

Dennis ....


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kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
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2007-10-31          147578


Home Depot/ Lowes sell a light duty scafolding that will get you up to 8 feet. Put a 10- 12 foot folding ladder on top of that and your in the neighborhood. If you're worried about a fall you could always tie off to the glue lam. ....


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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2007-10-31          147582


One of the big box stores had an ad for an adjustable step ladder going up to 22' for $199.98 ....


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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2007-10-31          147598


Dennis, when I went to rent the wheels and such were not in the quote. Understand you may not need wheels but I was surprised what was not include in quoted rates. Guess braces were but not sure. I know the platform to work on was not. But rental is local market driven no doubt. kt ....


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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-10-31          147609


Dennis, I missed this thread somehow, sorry.

When I was doing mine I spoke to a neighbour who happens to own the local "Mr. Electric" franchise, there is one near you too I'm sure, about putting in the wiring & box etc., first.

When he came over to look at the job he told me if I had the fan ready to go when his guys got there with the small lift they use, he would hang the fan for an extra $20. It was a no brainer!!

Best of luck. ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2007-10-31          147610


Kleinchris,

I cannot hook on to the Glue Lam as it butts against the ceiling, unless I had a monster clamp its at least 8 inches thick and maybe 18 inhces high

KT,
I know I remember the outriggers were an extra fee so maybe the wheels are also, but I don't think I need wheels.

Murf,
I called Mr. Electric, down here they call it a two man job, I guess no power lift. I think NJ is going to be pricey, though up until I said it was an 18 foot ceiling they said they would allow time for estimate and install as most customers go for it as their prices are competitive, but they cannot do that for a two man install. We will see.

Thanks for the tip.

Dennis ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2007-11-01          147646


Murf,

Mr Electric came today to estimate the job. They only do work with a building permit.

They want $475 plus $60 for the building permit. That is with putting a shutoff switch in the attic no wall switch though.

Those Canadian dollars go much further ;)

Dennis

Dennis ....


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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
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2007-11-02          147666


Dennis that price seems low when you figure they have to go get the permit and factor in wages, insurances, taxes, vehicle wear-and-tear, tools, overhead, etc. AND on top of that pay the frachise fee(s). They'll be lucky if they make $75 on the deal.

I'll stick to moving dirt. ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2007-11-02          147667


I agree the profit is low mostly because of wasted time.

They spent over a half hour just driving to my place, then it took them 20 minutes to look over the job. Then he took 20 minutes to write it up on a form.

The first visit probably took 1.5 hours all in plus gas etc..

Then they will bring two guys out, but first they will go to the building department to file for a permit. That's one visit and then you wait a couple of days.

Then you need to install it and have the building inspector approve it, don't know if they have to be there for that.

But from my perspective, I can do it for $50 with no permit. So its a 10 x mark up.

Dennis ....


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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2007-11-02          147676


Dennis, my pencil and your's works the same. Shame you don't have a good friend who has the lady who would like the fun of helping you. kt


I am talking about a friend who is near enough to help. ....


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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
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2007-11-02          147681


I told my wife I was putting the single pole switch in the attic as an emergency switch since it is a remote control fan, and she goes oh no it has to be in the wall! There is no explaining how it is pointless and only controls juice to fan and nothing else.

Then she says she does not know if she will like where I am putting it as we have ceiling high hats that may create a strobe effect if both the fan and the lights are on at the same time. Good catch, but we don't have much choice on location. She wants the fan though because her sister has the same layout with a stove and they say it does wonders for bringing the heat down stairs.

We shall see ;-)
....


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nosteiner4me
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2007-11-02          147684


Dennis...I lost 3 customers of mine that died early in life when they fell off a ladder, they were 33-50 years old and the wives were devestated. You would be surprised how many people die or come close to that each year. Pay the 500 bux and watch them install it from your favorite arm chair drinking a beer. You are going to save money from the firewood you burn and also save money on the fan blowing the heat around the house. I would also donate 100 bux to the cause if that would help you stay off that 20 ft ladder and your wife can keep you around a couple extra years. No kidding just say the word. ....


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DennisCTB
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2007-11-03          147691


Hardwood,

Your comment from another thread:

As for the ceiling fan, would the Mrs. be real upset if you just returned the fan and somehow had some kind of floor level fans to somewhat of the same thing making the air circulate. It could be worse you know, some folks in this world don't even have a ceiling, let alone a fan. (No joke intended here). Frank.

Great idea, just to test out what you said I took an old box floor fan and set it 1 foot off the floor blowing on the ceiling. It was very effective at blowing the cold air into the hot ceiling air and stopping the stagnation of air on the second story. I am wondering if that set up with the floor fan could actually be more effective than the ceiling fan.

NoSteiner,

I hear you, could be cheap insurance. Yes lets pass the hat around so the Tractorpoint operator can still run this place LOL! Just kidding!

Dennis ....


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bloggins
Join Date: Apr 2006
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2007-11-03          147697


Somewhat been there, done that. My last home was a Linwood built home with a massive cathedral cieling in the Living Room. I replaced the existing cieling fan (at the peak of the roof) with a new unit and I used my 32ft extension ladder wedge into the main beam at the peak and on the hardwood floor jamed a combination of furniture to prevent slippage. I rigged an up-haul line(rope) from the upper ladder rung down to the floor and used this as a temporary pulley to haul components and as a safety line for those pieces while assembling (tie off with slack). All of my tools were in a tool belt and no one was allowed below the ladder for safety unless to attach stuff to the up-haul line. It wasn't easy and hard on the legs and nerves, but a cieling fan is great to have especially with a fireplace in the same room. Having a remote sounds even better so you can control from whereever you are. And...a great conversation piece when others look up at the fan scratching their heads wondering how it was installed! ....


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kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2007-11-16          148362


Looking at your concern about the strobe effect, can happen. Can drive you bonkers depending on the light and how close to them the blades are and such.

Depending on what you are trying to do and the design of the room and decor and such you may have other options than a ceiling fan. Is it possible you have a built in duct within the interior walls such as space between studs in which you could place a fan to pull the hot air down by placing a grill in top of the wall and the bottom of the same set of studs. With the height of your wall it probably is not open the full length. There is always more than one way to skin a cat or so I was always told but who wants to know even one way to skin a cat? kt

....


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DennisCTB
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2008-02-01          151017


Ok here is the conclusion.

Could not come to an agreement with my wife, she wanted to spend 10 times the amount I did so I brought the fan back for a refund yesterday.

We are just using the floor fan to blow some air when we need it. It was a no win situation, but when she puts up her wall it is a formidable one.

It is also the reason I don't bring her along when I buy cars, she hates the wheeling and dealing, and gets impatient and takes the salesman's side against me. "Hurry up honey!" ( its only money;)) ....


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kthompson
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2008-02-01          151019


Not sure how to make this work, but try giving her a pile of cash when you go to trade and tell her what ever is left you can spend say 50% of it on what ever you want, other than what ever it is you are buying (such as car).

Or since it is only money and it seems there is an abundance, more tractors and such seems the quick solution. She gets the fan and you get a tractor. Might be a win win deal there yet. kt ....


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Murf
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2008-02-01          151024


Dennis, not sure how it would work with your situation, but a friend of mine recently had a similar problem, except in his case it wasn't a fussy 'head of domestic affairs', his wife suffers from migraines and the combination of a spinning fan and lights is not a good one, as you mentioned already.

His solution was to build a wooden structure that looks like a beam up to the ceiling in the 2 corners that have the highest ceilings. They are just oak veneer (to match the rest of his woodwork) plywood boxes and are hollow. At the bottom of each is a large air register facing out in two directions, and at the top a large air inlet, like a cold air return vent. Suspended inside each box beam is a large capacity (variable speed) blower fan that forces air out the bottom vents, the only place this air can come from is the inlet at the top of each 'beam'. The blowers are connected to a thermostat that automatically turns them on & off based on the difference in temperature between ceiling and floor levels.

He said it seems to be working quite nicely and they are very quiet, even when running on high.

He figures they were less expensive than (in his case) running new wiring through a large existing cathedral ceiling with no attic above, and then adding all the framing to hold the weight of a ceiling fan.

Best of luck. ....


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Clifford09
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2011-05-10          178390


delivers the energy-saving comfort and smart styling you want for your home. The PowerPlus motor is built to last a lifetime, and precision-balanced blades offer quiet, wobble-free operation. The revolutionary Quick-Connect Assembly System means you can install Hampton Bay ceiling fans in next to no time − the motor housing comes pre-assembled, and the blades simply slide and lock into place. ....


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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
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2011-05-10          178394


Clifford: we've turned this over to our Investigation and Enforcement Dept. Expect to see them at your door. ....


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