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Doug K from PA
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2002-07-22          40579


Can anyone give me some information on cedar siding? Such as longevity, insect damage, installation and comparison to other woods such as Hemlock. I am considering using 6" wide boards for a clapboard look and stained in a light stain to acheive that golden look. Your input is greatly appreciated!



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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-07-22          40582


What type of cedar? White cedar? Yellow cedar? Western red cedar? Eastern red cedar? ....


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JJT
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 93 Upstate NY, USA
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2002-07-22          40585


I have 20,000 linear feet of Red Cedar on my house. Longevity - 100+ years if it's treated regularly, (I re-oil every 3 - 4 years). If you let it go natural it will eventually turn gray. Longevity with no maint - at least 50 years.

The last house I had also had cedar siding and I went with a solid stain, it lasted 10 years before it needed to be recoated.

It's labor intensive to install, at least 3 - 5 times the labor cost of vinyl.

Make sure you treat both sides of the siding before the install and use stainless steel nails. Anything else will leave a black stain, even galvanized siding nails will eventually bleed. ....


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Doug K from PA
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2002-07-23          40614


Thanks for your input jt...especially about the nails, I probably would have gone with galvanized.

Peters, red cedar, whether eastern or western I do not know. Is there an advantage one way or the other? ....


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Peters
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2002-07-24          40636


Western red cedar is less dense and easier to nail. Normally this is what you find in the lumber yard. You will not get the eastern unless you buy from a local mill.
You can use galvanized if you blind nail under the over lap on the top of the boards and not on the bottom.
We get occasional high wind storms here so I nail top and bottom. You can use finish nails but need to take care you do not set the nail head too deep. I have a air finish nailer and use it with 2 " nail. You can buy stainless nails but they are about 2x the price.
If the boards are thinner they have a V groove cut in them. The V groove is for stress relief and need to go against the wall. My house in KY had siding installed wrong and needed to be redone after 13 years.
There are pest that like the cedar, carpenter ants, not common in PA, carpenter bees, I have no idea about PA, and wood peckers. The wood peckers will use the siding to drill holes and tap acorns into it.
You need to consider what you are going to do on the corners. Mitre to the corners or use corner boards.
Peters ....


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Doug K from PA
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2002-07-24          40643


Thanks Peters...good advice. We do have carpenter bees here and that was one of my concerns but so far they have not bothered the barn I built last summer.
I have heard of people having to spray with an insecticide to prevent them from damaging the siding. I am not real keen on using chemicals.
We are on top of a hill so I will probably top and bottom nail like you did and use the stainless nails. ....


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Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
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2002-07-24          40644


My house is mostly native rock with cedar over hangs, window trim and gables. I don't know much about stains and treatments but last year I bought something called CFR? It comes in clear or stained. I used the clear and it brought the natural color of the cedar back out. The people that had the house before us didn't take too many pains with it. I do know it's one solid house and about 3500 sq ft. Too big for the wife and I but oh well. That's what the boss wanted.

Billy ....


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Peters
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2002-07-24          40645


I use a Senco SFN30 for most of this. It is light and can shoot to a 2 " nail. The 2 " stainless are about 60$ a box of 4000. The 2" galvanized are 35$ a box.
It is a good all round gun. I have used it for tough and groove ceilings and flooring besides the siding. It is the only nail gun that I own.
I am shooting tops and bottoms on 16" centers at the moment so that there are 4 nails holding the top and the bottom of each board, but only one visible. I have only about 10 sq ft left to complete and a little trim, but have gone through more than a box of nails.
I know I would not have wanted to complete this without the nail gun. ....


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Doug K from PA
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2002-07-26          40697


Peters, your right those nail guns are great. I have the Porter cable guns (brad, angled finish and angled framer)they may not be as durable as the Senco but they have saved me a lot of time over the past few years. I am curious, how many sq of cedar siding did you do and approximately how long did it take?

Billy, did you need to clean the siding before you stained it in order to obtain the natural color again? ....


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Stan
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2002-07-26          40700


Peeters,

Wish the woodpeckers would put some acorns in my siding - the big holes they leave are pretty ugly right now. I have several sections of siding to either patch or replace from them.

Any good ideas for how to discourage them (remember, "woodpeckers are like in-laws, you can't live with 'em, and you can't shoot 'em"...lol).



Doug,

As mentioned above, be sure to treat both sides of the cedar. That, and nailing on the bottom of the board, will go a long way to prevent cupping over the years. Also, I'd avoid really dark pigmented stains. The heat buildup also accelerates the warping you often see.

The clear stains or oils look prettier anyway (in my mind), especially in a natural setting. The upkeep is simpler too.

Keep us informed, sounds like a nice place.

Stan
....


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Billy
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2002-07-26          40702


Doug, I washed it down with a presure washer (plain water), then let it dry. I put 2 coats on, the second before the first one dries. You have to do a section at a time unless you have plenty of help.

Billy
....


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Doug K from PA
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2002-07-26          40703


How did anyone ever learn anything before this message board came along? I have learned tons of stuff here, thanks!

....


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Peters
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2002-07-26          40709


Doug;
It took me four weeks, for approximately 3000 st ft.
There are some conditions here though
1) on 3 sides I had to go to 4 scaffolds (20 ft) to reach the peak. The other side only to 3.
2)I used the cemsnt board that looks like cedar, rather than cedar. It is harder to cut and trim.
3) I was also doing the soffet, facia, metal rake and corners and some trim.
4) The eaves exend out to 4 ft from 15 inches on 3 roof lines. Some of the bird boxes took 1/2 day to frame due to the wacky angles and having to climb 3 scaffolds to trim and return. This also extended the time required to do the soffets as they require 2 cuts for each piece.
Glad its done!!!
Peters ....


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kay
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2002-07-26          40712


Stan
I am in the process of repairing woodpecker holes in the boards of my board and batten siding. I use a hole saw to remove a round 2" plug, then use another hole saw to make the plugs that I put back in the holes. Did about 20 of them today. Will pressure wash before applying semi-transparent stain next week. The plugs look like oversize knots, and don't seem too objectionable.
For the woodpeckers, I use the shotgun when I can, but also use rat traps baited with suet and hanging near the new holes they are pecking. Only solution I know of is to get rid of the occasional woodpecker that seems to be marking out its territory. ....


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Jim on Timberridge
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 172 La Crosse WI
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2002-07-27          40744


I've had cedar board-on-board siding for 25 years. Never had pest damage until this year (western Wis), and it's only a couple woodpecker holes. Bird seed supply stores sell a mylar tape that's shiny red one side, silver other side. Draping it near the pecker's favorite site helps keeps them away -- it flaps in the wind.
I used CWF (cedar wood finish). years ago it was only available as an oil. It's not a stain, but enhances the orangish cedar color. About $65/5gal pail; applies with a rough-surface pad. I put it on before installing so the CWF would soak into the boards lying flat (and 2 coats).
On sides that face E, W, and N, i haven't had to refinish at all (25 years). If the wood gets wet by rain or sprinkling, it will fade to a characteristics grey quickly regardless of finish. I have 2' overhangs and avoid the sprinkle spray. The north side suffers from fading and the soft fiber between the growth ring ridges deteriorates. Had to replace maybe 1/3 of the boards. They are expensive when buying 7/8"x12"x24'.
jim ....


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Jim on Timberridge
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2002-07-27          40745


Didn't complete one thought:

The CWF is now available in a water-washable version. It is higher viscosity and easier to apply than the original oily version.
jim ....


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Peters
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2002-07-28          40761


Olympic also make a stain for cedar. Olympic was owned by Weldwood in WA, but I don't know now. ....


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tommyW
Join Date: Feb 2005
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2003-02-20          49634


I have a house that has cedar siding on two stories down in Georgia. I used CWF every two years to maintain it. The carpenter bees and woodpeckers finally drove me to the point of covering it all with vinyl siding. The bees would bore into it and lay eggs and then the woodpeckers would dig them back out.
Don't do it!!! ....


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tly7717
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2003-02-20          49640


I have cedar siding and love the look. My siding is somewhat different than I have seen on other houses. It is more of a "car siding" than an overlap type. It is also has a smooth finish as opposed to the rough. The house is almost 2 years old and I have applied three coats of preservative to it. The first 2 coats were Behr 92 which is a linseed oil base product. I applied the clear and it gave it a nice orangish tint. By the time I was ready for the third coat, Behr discontinued the product. Home Depot tried to sell me Behrs water based equivilant and I elected not to go that way. Instead I went with Olympic's similar product. I think it is called Olympic Gold. About $85 for five gallon. After viewing other posts, it looks like I am putting too much on. The reason that I have put three complete coats on a 2 year old house is because around the knots after a few months it appears that the product is going away. Is this because because of the wood density it can't absorb as much product therefore it disappears faster. Has anyone else noticed this. Is it a problem? I would love to get to where I only have to do this every 3 or 4 years. Right now, I wouldn't change a thing. As I said before, love the look.

Tom Young ....


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Peters
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Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2003-02-20          49651


Tom;
I am not sure the stain is sinking into the knots. Normally the oils in the knots seep through the coating and then darken on the surface. It reacts with the Nitrous Oxide in the air. This will be duller than the rest of the wood.
Too much into right?
The knot will not absorb as much stain as the rest of the cedar.
Peters ....


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dcsmith02
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2003-02-20          49665


You guys are really a wealth of knowledge. Two years ago I paid two dope smoking long hairs $500 to re-stain the cedar on the front of my house. I don't know what they used but they really did a nice job. Well, I can see in another year or so it will need to be redone. I guess they weren't all that effiecient. Thanks to you guys I realize this can be done with out the Ozzy Osbourne Music but maybe not the,,,,anyway thanks.. ....


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